Requirements for a church leader

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Ross
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Requirements for a church leader

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What biblical requirements exist for a leader, pastor, teacher, priest, overseer, or whatever you wish to name them in a Christian congregation, church, gathering or community?

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Re: Requirements for a church leader

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Mae von H wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 6:25 am
Ross wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 1:42 pm
1213 wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:10 am
Ross wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:11 pm What biblical requirements exist for a leader, pastor, teacher, priest, overseer, or whatever you wish to name them in a Christian congregation, church, gathering or community?
Faithful is the Word: If anyone reaches out to overseership, he desires a good work. Then it behooves the overseer to be blameless, husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, well-ordered, hospitable, apt at teaching; not a drinker, not a contentious one, not greedy of ill gain, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not loving money; ruling his own house well, having children in subjection with all respect. But if anyone does not know to rule his own house, how will he care for a church of God? He should not be a novice, lest being puffed up he may fall into the Devil's judgment. But he must also have a good witness from those outside, that he not fall into reproach and into a snare of the Devil. Likewise, deacons to be reverent, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy of ill gain,
1 Tim. 3:1-8

For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments, and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called 'Rabbi, Rabbi' by men. But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Matt. 23:4-12
Thank you for your answer. While most of the above would be obvious requirements; I am particularly interested in:

"husband of one wife.... having children in subjection with all respect."

Would this necessitate a married male who has children?
I find the requirement that his children, including teenagers, are not rebellious more compelling than whether he’s married. A number of our “elders” have children who are atheists. If they cannot communicate the faith to their children, who observe them living out the faith, why does the church think they’ll do better with others? Maybe they DON’T live it out at all….
That is an excellent point. In fact one I had not thought about before. Thank you for that.

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Re: Requirements for a church leader

Post #12

Post by Mae von H »

Ross wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:21 am
Mae von H wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 6:25 am
Ross wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 1:42 pm
1213 wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:10 am
Ross wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:11 pm What biblical requirements exist for a leader, pastor, teacher, priest, overseer, or whatever you wish to name them in a Christian congregation, church, gathering or community?
Faithful is the Word: If anyone reaches out to overseership, he desires a good work. Then it behooves the overseer to be blameless, husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, well-ordered, hospitable, apt at teaching; not a drinker, not a contentious one, not greedy of ill gain, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not loving money; ruling his own house well, having children in subjection with all respect. But if anyone does not know to rule his own house, how will he care for a church of God? He should not be a novice, lest being puffed up he may fall into the Devil's judgment. But he must also have a good witness from those outside, that he not fall into reproach and into a snare of the Devil. Likewise, deacons to be reverent, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy of ill gain,
1 Tim. 3:1-8

For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments, and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called 'Rabbi, Rabbi' by men. But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Matt. 23:4-12
Thank you for your answer. While most of the above would be obvious requirements; I am particularly interested in:

"husband of one wife.... having children in subjection with all respect."

Would this necessitate a married male who has children?
I find the requirement that his children, including teenagers, are not rebellious more compelling than whether he’s married. A number of our “elders” have children who are atheists. If they cannot communicate the faith to their children, who observe them living out the faith, why does the church think they’ll do better with others? Maybe they DON’T live it out at all….
That is an excellent point. In fact one I had not thought about before. Thank you for that.
Thanks for the compliment. I was out of Anglo/American church life for 30 something years and was shocked to return to find that the vast majority of devoted parents in church have outright atheist offspring, once they are out of the house. I wondered how this developed and so startled observing.

What I saw after many months, was that the parents did not really believe or in other words, their value system was the same as the world. One elder, whose grown children are solid atheists, said something while leading a bible study that showed clearly a distain for the bible. Another mother said twice when asked about a new hair cut that she had to keep herself beautiful so her christian husband did not commit adultery. I can only imagine what they said of Jesus teaching at home in unguarded moments. So I saw that actually, the offspring were more honest than the parents.

My daughter said something to me a few days ago. She said, *you know Mom, you didn't raise us to be churchy.* I responded that I wanted them to have a relationship with God and walk obeying Him, not join a club per se. Both my adult children are Christians. Both of them have defended the faith against atheism in school and college. I gave them reasons for the fatih that withstand the onslaught of atheism. I did not give them feelings or experiences to rely upon alone.

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Re: Requirements for a church leader

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Ross wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:00 am What then about women? Can they scripturally be pastors or priests?
I think it depends on what a pastor or priest is. I think, if we are disciples of Jesus, we should not desire others to hold us in high position. Often its seems priests or pastors are like rabbis in this:

For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments, and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called 'Rabbi, Rabbi' by men. But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Matt. 23:4-12

If priest or pastor means a person who serves others, I don't see why anyone could not be a servant for others.

But, would a woman want to be a servant for others, or do they seek to be worshiped as priestesses?

Or what if I would say, I want women to be servants? I would probably be crucified on altar of wokeness. :D

I wouldn't require women to be servants. But, I would not deny that role from them, if they wish to be servants.

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Re: Requirements for a church leader

Post #14

Post by Ross »

1213 wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:46 am
Ross wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:00 am What then about women? Can they scripturally be pastors or priests?
I think it depends on what a pastor or priest is. I think, if we are disciples of Jesus, we should not desire others to hold us in high position. Often its seems priests or pastors are like rabbis in this:

For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments, and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called 'Rabbi, Rabbi' by men. But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Matt. 23:4-12

If priest or pastor means a person who serves others, I don't see why anyone could not be a servant for others.

But, would a woman want to be a servant for others, or do they seek to be worshiped as priestesses?

Or what if I would say, I want women to be servants? I would probably be crucified on altar of wokeness. :D

I wouldn't require women to be servants. But, I would not deny that role from them, if they wish to be servants.
1Timothy chapter two comes to mind. The words of the unmarried Apostle Paul :

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

Any thoughts?

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Re: Requirements for a church leader

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Post by 1213 »

Ross wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:04 pm ...
1Timothy chapter two comes to mind. The words of the unmarried Apostle Paul :

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

Any thoughts?
Paul seems to say that he doesn't accept women to have authority over men. I think it is in line with the teachings of Jesus, as Jesus taught that his disciples should be equal and none of them should have authority over others. But, I don't think it means women can't be servants.

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Re: Requirements for a church leader

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Post by Ross »

1213 wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 3:19 am
Ross wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:04 pm ...
1Timothy chapter two comes to mind. The words of the unmarried Apostle Paul :

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."

Any thoughts?
Paul seems to say that he doesn't accept women to have authority over men. I think it is in line with the teachings of Jesus, as Jesus taught that his disciples should be equal and none of them should have authority over others. But, I don't think it means women can't be servants.
All of those in a church or congregation environment would be servants (helping one another and doing whatever roles were available) would they not?
But the express role of a pastor, church leader, or priest would be to take to the podium and lead and teach the Bible to those present.
And the words say:

"I do not permit a woman to teach"

I am here to learn from others, not to impose my own views; so any comments are welcome

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Re: Requirements for a church leader

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Post by 1213 »

Ross wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 11:25 am ...
And the words say:

"I do not permit a woman to teach"

I am here to learn from others, not to impose my own views; so any comments are welcome
For disciples of Jesus, Jesus is the teacher.

...for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers...
Matt. 23:4-12

So we could say, not any woman nor man should be in that position in congregation. But, I don't have any problem, if any human reminds me of what Jesus said, then it is actually Jesus teaching, not the one who speaks.

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Re: Requirements for a church leader

Post #18

Post by Mae von H »

Ross wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:11 pm What biblical requirements exist for a leader, pastor, teacher, priest, overseer, or whatever you wish to name them in a Christian congregation, church, gathering or community?
The list is in scripture but today’s church only requires that one volunteer. No special standards are applied. There are churches that accepted pastors who are having or recently had immoral affairs no problem. They employ and pay them, no problem.

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