Acts - The Stoning of Stephen

[Wootah]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

The Stoning of Stephen
54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

Taken from: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/ ... 3265#73265

Why when Stephen (who was full of the Holy Spirit) looks to heaven and sees the Father and the Son together does he call out to Jesus to receive his spirit and to forgive them?

[Wootah]

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

Why do you think it was an error? Do you think Jesus is not the way to the Father?

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:5

Yes but that is the words of a non God being for you.

Imagine having to believe that the only way to God was through a non God being. Some non God being using itself between you and God. That is evil.

Why couldn't a non-God Being be a mediator between God and men? What IS evil is saying that a non-God Person is God. Jesus was the first thing created by God (thus he is called the "only-begotten") and has always been what we could call #2 in the rank of things. He is the highest Being after the Father. Why is that not satisfactory? He never was a mere man, but a perfect man that came from heaven to be born a human. Why does he have to be God? He himself said to the FATHER: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Not "we" are the only true God.

Well ultimately the Bible (and everything) is about God glorifying himself. But specifically when I read the Bible I see God saving Israel and yes through a mediator, a potential Messiah but they all fail, because they are not God. Next we know also that in terms of justice like has to pay for like. So that is why God had to become a man, to pay for our sin. That is why an animal sacrifice or a human sacrifice can never pay for it. Then you know we sin against God and so how can a debt be paid against God, like for like. Jesus is either God or cannot pay for sins against God.

[2timothy316]

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

Why do you think it was an error? Do you think Jesus is not the way to the Father?

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:5

Yes but that is the words of a non God being for you.

Imagine having to believe that the only way to God was through a non God being. Some non God being using itself between you and God. That is evil.

Why couldn't a non-God Being be a mediator between God and men? What IS evil is saying that a non-God Person is God. Jesus was the first thing created by God (thus he is called the "only-begotten") and has always been what we could call #2 in the rank of things. He is the highest Being after the Father. Why is that not satisfactory? He never was a mere man, but a perfect man that came from heaven to be born a human. Why does he have to be God? He himself said to the FATHER: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Not "we" are the only true God.

Well ultimately the Bible (and everything) is about God glorifying himself. But specifically when I read the Bible I see God saving Israel and yes through a mediator, a potential Messiah but they all fail, because they are not God. Next we know also that in terms of justice like has to pay for like. So that is why God had to become a man, to pay for our sin. That is why an animal sacrifice or a human sacrifice can never pay for it. Then you know we sin against God and so how can a debt be paid against God, like for like. Jesus is either God or cannot pay for sins against God.

So you're saying that God sinned and thus only God can pay for God's sin?
You say 'like for like' but the Bible says 'life for life'. What life was Jesus paying for? God's life?

[Wootah]

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

Why do you think it was an error? Do you think Jesus is not the way to the Father?

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:5

Yes but that is the words of a non God being for you.

Imagine having to believe that the only way to God was through a non God being. Some non God being using itself between you and God. That is evil.

Why couldn't a non-God Being be a mediator between God and men? What IS evil is saying that a non-God Person is God. Jesus was the first thing created by God (thus he is called the "only-begotten") and has always been what we could call #2 in the rank of things. He is the highest Being after the Father. Why is that not satisfactory? He never was a mere man, but a perfect man that came from heaven to be born a human. Why does he have to be God? He himself said to the FATHER: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Not "we" are the only true God.

Well ultimately the Bible (and everything) is about God glorifying himself. But specifically when I read the Bible I see God saving Israel and yes through a mediator, a potential Messiah but they all fail, because they are not God. Next we know also that in terms of justice like has to pay for like. So that is why God had to become a man, to pay for our sin. That is why an animal sacrifice or a human sacrifice can never pay for it. Then you know we sin against God and so how can a debt be paid against God, like for like. Jesus is either God or cannot pay for sins against God.

So you're saying that God sinned and thus only God can pay for God's sin?
You say 'like for like' but the Bible says 'life for life'. What life was Jesus paying for? God's life?

Your life. Which is why Jesus became a man.

[1213]

...So that is why God had to become a man, to pay for our sin. That is why an animal sacrifice or a human sacrifice can never pay for it. Then you know we sin against God and so how can a debt be paid against God, like for like. Jesus is either God or cannot pay for sins against God.

Why do you think they must be paid? By what is said in the Bible, Jesus had right to forgive without any payments.

The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, answered them, "Why are you reasoning so in your hearts? Which is easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you;' or to say, 'Arise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (he said to the paralyzed man), "I tell you, arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house." Immediately he rose up before them, and took up that which he was laying on, and departed to his house, glorifying God.
Luke 5:21-25

And disciples of Jesus have the same right:

If you forgive anyone’s sins, they have been forgiven them. If you retain anyone’s sins, they have been retained.”
John 20:23

[2timothy316]

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

Why do you think it was an error? Do you think Jesus is not the way to the Father?

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:5

Yes but that is the words of a non God being for you.

Imagine having to believe that the only way to God was through a non God being. Some non God being using itself between you and God. That is evil.

Why couldn't a non-God Being be a mediator between God and men? What IS evil is saying that a non-God Person is God. Jesus was the first thing created by God (thus he is called the "only-begotten") and has always been what we could call #2 in the rank of things. He is the highest Being after the Father. Why is that not satisfactory? He never was a mere man, but a perfect man that came from heaven to be born a human. Why does he have to be God? He himself said to the FATHER: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Not "we" are the only true God.

Well ultimately the Bible (and everything) is about God glorifying himself. But specifically when I read the Bible I see God saving Israel and yes through a mediator, a potential Messiah but they all fail, because they are not God. Next we know also that in terms of justice like has to pay for like. So that is why God had to become a man, to pay for our sin. That is why an animal sacrifice or a human sacrifice can never pay for it. Then you know we sin against God and so how can a debt be paid against God, like for like. Jesus is either God or cannot pay for sins against God.

So you're saying that God sinned and thus only God can pay for God's sin?
You say 'like for like' but the Bible says 'life for life'. What life was Jesus paying for? God's life?

Your life. Which is why Jesus became a man.

So Jesus was just a man? Not God.

[Wootah]

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

Why do you think it was an error? Do you think Jesus is not the way to the Father?

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:5

Yes but that is the words of a non God being for you.

Imagine having to believe that the only way to God was through a non God being. Some non God being using itself between you and God. That is evil.

Why couldn't a non-God Being be a mediator between God and men? What IS evil is saying that a non-God Person is God. Jesus was the first thing created by God (thus he is called the "only-begotten") and has always been what we could call #2 in the rank of things. He is the highest Being after the Father. Why is that not satisfactory? He never was a mere man, but a perfect man that came from heaven to be born a human. Why does he have to be God? He himself said to the FATHER: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Not "we" are the only true God.

Well ultimately the Bible (and everything) is about God glorifying himself. But specifically when I read the Bible I see God saving Israel and yes through a mediator, a potential Messiah but they all fail, because they are not God. Next we know also that in terms of justice like has to pay for like. So that is why God had to become a man, to pay for our sin. That is why an animal sacrifice or a human sacrifice can never pay for it. Then you know we sin against God and so how can a debt be paid against God, like for like. Jesus is either God or cannot pay for sins against God.

So you're saying that God sinned and thus only God can pay for God's sin?
You say 'like for like' but the Bible says 'life for life'. What life was Jesus paying for? God's life?

Your life. Which is why Jesus became a man.

So Jesus was just a man? Not God.

Just a man can't pay for sins against God.

I don't get this from you guys.

If I kill a fly I don't go to jail. Because it is a fly.
If I kill a pet cat I might go to jail or get fined.
If I kill a person I go to jail.
Basically you know that the penalty depends on who you commit the crime against (don't get hung up on the word kill).

So if you commit a crime against God - no man can pay.

There is no logical way out of this other than Jesus is God.

[2timothy316]

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

Why do you think it was an error? Do you think Jesus is not the way to the Father?

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:5

Yes but that is the words of a non God being for you.

Imagine having to believe that the only way to God was through a non God being. Some non God being using itself between you and God. That is evil.

Why couldn't a non-God Being be a mediator between God and men? What IS evil is saying that a non-God Person is God. Jesus was the first thing created by God (thus he is called the "only-begotten") and has always been what we could call #2 in the rank of things. He is the highest Being after the Father. Why is that not satisfactory? He never was a mere man, but a perfect man that came from heaven to be born a human. Why does he have to be God? He himself said to the FATHER: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Not "we" are the only true God.

Well ultimately the Bible (and everything) is about God glorifying himself. But specifically when I read the Bible I see God saving Israel and yes through a mediator, a potential Messiah but they all fail, because they are not God. Next we know also that in terms of justice like has to pay for like. So that is why God had to become a man, to pay for our sin. That is why an animal sacrifice or a human sacrifice can never pay for it. Then you know we sin against God and so how can a debt be paid against God, like for like. Jesus is either God or cannot pay for sins against God.

So you're saying that God sinned and thus only God can pay for God's sin?
You say 'like for like' but the Bible says 'life for life'. What life was Jesus paying for? God's life?

Your life. Which is why Jesus became a man.

So Jesus was just a man? Not God.

Just a man can't pay for sins against God.

I don't get this from you guys.

If I kill a fly I don't go to jail. Because it is a fly.
If I kill a pet cat I might go to jail or get fined.
If I kill a person I go to jail.
Basically you know that the penalty depends on who you commit the crime against (don't get hung up on the word kill).

So if you commit a crime against God - no man can pay.

There is no logical way out of this other than Jesus is God.

You do realize this makes no sense, right? The blood of God paying for that of a human...that's like you owing me a $1, you give me a billion dollars, I take your billion dollars and I give you no change.

Explain Romans 5:12. "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world".

[onewithhim]

Jesus was the first thing created by God (thus he is called the "only-begotten")

If he's the "only-begotten," wouldn't be be the first thing begotten of God rather than created by? Isn't that what you affirmed in a previous thread?

"Begotten of" means "created by."

[1213]

...
There is no logical way out of this other than Jesus is God.

So, you think God can't just be merciful and forgive for free?

[Wootah]

...
There is no logical way out of this other than Jesus is God.

So, you think God can't just be merciful and forgive for free?

Come up with an example that is just. You can defeat Christianity if you can.