Acts - The Stoning of Stephen

[Wootah]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

The Stoning of Stephen
54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

Taken from: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/ ... 3265#73265

Why when Stephen (who was full of the Holy Spirit) looks to heaven and sees the Father and the Son together does he call out to Jesus to receive his spirit and to forgive them?

[Wootah]

[Replying to 1213 in post #6]

Staying on topic. How do you explain Stephen talking to not God when God is right there?

1213 is staying on topic.

OK good, phew. So when you get a vision of God, the Father, the creator of the universe, the foundation of your salvation you talk to the guy next to him?

I don't believe you would. Would you?

[1213]

So when you get a vision of God, the Father, the creator of the universe, the foundation of your salvation you talk to the guy next to him?

I don't believe you would. Would you?

If I would have something to say for him, then yes. However, I don't think what I would do makes any difference in this. Bible tells that the person talked to Jesus. And I don't see any reason why it could not have been so, even if God is right next to Jesus. Sorry, I really don't see any problem in that.

[Wootah]

So when you get a vision of God, the Father, the creator of the universe, the foundation of your salvation you talk to the guy next to him?

I don't believe you would. Would you?

If I would have something to say for him, then yes. However, I don't think what I would do makes any difference in this. Bible tells that the person talked to Jesus. And I don't see any reason why it could not have been so, even if God is right next to Jesus. Sorry, I really don't see any problem in that.

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

[1213]

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

Why do you think it was an error? Do you think Jesus is not the way to the Father?

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:5

[Wootah]

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

Why do you think it was an error? Do you think Jesus is not the way to the Father?

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:5

Yes but that is the words of a non God being for you.

Imagine having to believe that the only way to God was through a non God being. Some non God being using itself between you and God. That is evil.

1213, Let no man or angel or demon or devil come between you and God.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Romans 8:38-39
New International Version
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God

Paul is convinced nothing can come between you and God.

that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Why? Because Jesus is God.

That is why Paul is convinced that only through Jesus can we come to God.

Paul was the best of the best at studying the Bible. Paul knows the shema. Paul knows only God saved. Paul killed Christians because they were inserting Jesus between man and God.

And rightly so. Christians should hate anyone trying to be God.

Saul changed because Jesus converted him.

When will your heart be broken by the good news?

[1213]

...Some non God being using itself between you and God. That is evil.

Why it is evil, if God has set him to be the way?

1213, Let no man or angel or demon or devil come between you and God.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Romans 8:38-39
New International Version
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God

Paul is convinced nothing can come between you and God.

He says "able to separate us from the love of God", not "nothing can come between you and God".

Why? Because Jesus is God.

That is why Paul is convinced that only through Jesus can we come to God.

Paul was the best of the best at studying the Bible. Paul knows the shema. Paul knows only God saved. Paul killed Christians because they were inserting Jesus between man and God.

And rightly so. Christians should hate anyone trying to be God.

Paul says:
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

Should he have killed himself?

Jesus didn't claim to be God. He told God is greater than him and there is only one true God. And so taught also Paul.

Jesus answered, "The greatest is, 'Hear, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one: you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
Mark 12:29-30
How can you believe, who receive glory from one another, and you don't seek the glory that comes from the only God?
John 5:44
This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3
Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascend-ing to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:17
… the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

You say Jesus is the God, why then you don't believe what he says?

[Wootah]

[Replying to 1213 in post #16]

Saul rejected Jesus because Jesus was associating himself with God. Upon conversion to Paul realised that association was OK. You are back at Saul.

[onewithhim]

So when you get a vision of God, the Father, the creator of the universe, the foundation of your salvation you talk to the guy next to him?

I don't believe you would. Would you?

If I would have something to say for him, then yes. However, I don't think what I would do makes any difference in this. Bible tells that the person talked to Jesus. And I don't see any reason why it could not have been so, even if God is right next to Jesus. Sorry, I really don't see any problem in that.

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

Jesus is "not God," but he has a very close relationship to the true God. I imagine Jesus would ask God to remember Stephen, even if God already knew what Stephen said.

[onewithhim]

OK. Well you haven't explained how Stephen failed to cry out to God and talked to not God.

'Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.' Imagine the magnitude of that error when God was right beside 'not God Jesus' and saying what Stephen said.

Will you make the same error and ask for a not God being to receive your spirit when you die?

Why do you think it was an error? Do you think Jesus is not the way to the Father?

Jesus said to him, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 14:5

Yes but that is the words of a non God being for you.

Imagine having to believe that the only way to God was through a non God being. Some non God being using itself between you and God. That is evil.

Why couldn't a non-God Being be a mediator between God and men? What IS evil is saying that a non-God Person is God. Jesus was the first thing created by God (thus he is called the "only-begotten") and has always been what we could call #2 in the rank of things. He is the highest Being after the Father. Why is that not satisfactory? He never was a mere man, but a perfect man that came from heaven to be born a human. Why does he have to be God? He himself said to the FATHER: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Not "we" are the only true God.

[Difflugia]

Jesus was the first thing created by God (thus he is called the "only-begotten")

If he's the "only-begotten," wouldn't be be the first thing begotten of God rather than created by? Isn't that what you affirmed in a previous thread?