Why Don't All Christians get Ashes Smeared on their Foreheads?

[Tcg]

.



Many years ago, a friend and I were driving down the main street of a small town and noticed a few people walking around with ashes in the shape of a killing device on their foreheads. As we continued, we saw more on more with this peculiar adornment. We eventually found the source of these folks which was a rather large Christian church they were pouring out of.

Both of us had been very active Christians at one time in our lives and yet had never seen this behavior. We later learned that this was related to Ash Wednesday.

What is the significance of this activity and why don't all Christians participate?


Tcg

[Masterblaster]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #20]

Hello JehovahsWitness

You can look at the Biblical figure of Abraham through whatever coloured glasses you like. Look at the history and it hardly gets you back to the Iron Age. Anyway, scripture cannot lie in your book so here is a bit for your consumption. This is how God and Abraham seal the deal

Genesis15
After this the word of Jehovah came to Aʹbram in a vision, saying: “Do not fear,+ Aʹbram. I am a shield for you.+ Your reward will be very great.”+ 2 Aʹbram replied: “Sovereign Lord Jehovah, what will you give me, seeing that I continue childless and the one who will inherit my house is a man of Damascus, E·li·eʹzer?”+ 3 Aʹbram added: “You have given me no offspring,*+ and a member* of my household is succeeding me as heir.” 4 But look! Jehovah’s word in reply to him was, “This man will not succeed you as heir, but your own son* will succeed you as heir.”+

5 He now brought him outside and said: “Look up, please, to the heavens and count the stars, if you are able to do so.” Then he said to him: “So your offspring* will become.”+ 6 And he put faith in Jehovah,+ and He counted* it to him as righteousness.+ 7 Then he added: “I am Jehovah, who brought you out of Ur of the Chal·deʹans to give you this land as your possession.”+ 8 To this he said: “Sovereign Lord Jehovah, how will I know that I will take possession of it?” 9 He replied to him: “Take for me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10 So he took all of these and cut them in two and put each part opposite the other,* but he did not cut up the birds. 11 Then the birds of prey began to descend on the carcasses, but Aʹbram kept driving them away.

12 When the sun was about to set, a deep sleep fell upon Aʹbram and a great and frightening darkness descended on him. 13 Then He said to Aʹbram: “Know for certain that your offspring* will be foreigners in a land not theirs and that the people there will enslave them and afflict them for 400 years.+ 14 But I will judge the nation they will serve,+ and after that they will go out with many goods.+ 15 As for you, you will go to your forefathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age.+ 16 But they will return here+ in the fourth generation, because the error of the Amʹor·ites has not yet reached its full measure.”+
17 When the sun had set and it had become very dark, a smoking furnace appeared, and a fiery torch passed between the pieces. 18 On that day Jehovah made with Aʹbram a covenant,+ saying: “To your offspring* I will give this land,+ from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Eu·phraʹtes:+ 19


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If that is not a pagan barbeque then I am a monkey's Uncle ( which I am). Do not try to spin what is not there as it will end poorly, JW.

Thanks

[JehovahsWitness]

If that is not a pagan barbeque ...

No, it most certainly was not.

Pure worship has always involved sacrifice whether of animals or offering grains or vegetables. The earliest biblical record of this was of Abel the son of Adam and Eve. Since such worship of the True GOD predates the existence of any other families on earth, we can reasonably assume that it was the pagans that later copied (and defiled) the original, not the other way round.



JW



Is Judaism rooted in paganism?
viewtopic.php?p=1143346#p1143346

Are pagan sacrifices a corrupted copy of the original pure worship ?
viewtopic.php?p=1143349#p1143349

[Masterblaster]

If that is not a pagan barbeque ...

No, it most certainly was not.

Pure worship has always involved sacrifice whether of animals or offering grains or vegetables. The earliest biblical record of this was of Abel the son of Adam and Eve. Since such worship of the True GOD predates the existence of any other families on earth, we can reasonably assume that it was the pagans that later copied (and defiled) the original, not the other way round.



JW



Is Judaism rooted in paganism?
viewtopic.php?p=1143346#p1143346

Are pagan sacrifices a corrupted copy of the original pure worship ?
viewtopic.php?p=1143349#p1143349

Hello JehovahsWitness

Keep dreaming, JW.
See wiki Korban..."The object sacrificed was usually an animal that was ritually slaughtered and then transferred from the human to the divine realm by being burned on an altar. Other sacrifices include grain offerings made of flour and oil, not meat."

Good, there was a vegetarian option!

It is hard to imagine defiling Abraham's bloodbath. An ancient herdsmen elder poking into the ashes for affirmation from his God. Then the breeze stirs up the fire for a bit and that's all they need to know. That is funny!

I wish you well in your Faith!
Thanks

Read wiki Animal Sacrifice, fascinating stuff and consider Jewish theology attempting to discard a practice that obviously conflicted with their new found theological sophistication. Now take the Christian jump that the Christ is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices. If they had burned the body it would have made for a more logical ending. Instead they went for the flames from the ashes motif. All this stuff evolved from a pagan primitiveness that predates words. Read wiki and enlighten yourself.'
The truth will set you free!'

[bjs1]

Hello bjs1

You say that this has nothing to do with paganism....the jury is out on this. I disagree.

The Jews want it, the Christians want it. The truth is that the moon has it. It was there before them all.
What better time to have resurrection than when green shoots emerge from the ground. Imagine eating Christmas Turkey in Australia on Dec 25th. That would be Yuk! One man's gravy is another man's sun cream.

From wiki...."The ecclesiastical historian Socrates Scholasticus attributes the observance of Easter by the church to the perpetuation of pre-Christian custom, "just as many other customs have been established", stating that neither Jesus nor his Apostles enjoined the keeping of this or any other festival. Although he describes the details of the Easter celebration as deriving from local custom, he insists the feast itself is universally observed."

I don’t know who the jury is on this one, but there is no evidence connecting the date of Easter (and therefore Ash Wednesday) to paganism.

The date did come from a pre-Christian custom; it came from the Passover. Even the wiki site you quoted goes into detail about how the date of Easter came from the Passover. The only debate early Christians had was if they would continue to look to Jewish communities about when the Passover (and therefore Easter) should be celebrated, or if they would establish their own calendar to track the date of Easter.

You are correct that the moon came before Christianity or Judaism. The moon is not pagan. I assume you are not saying that having a lunar calendar is pagan. Other than speculation, there no evidence tying the date of the Passover to any pagan rituals.

I’m not sure what Christmas in Australia has to do with anything, but I have friends in Australia. Their tradition is to have a pool party on Christmas. That sounds great to me!

[Masterblaster]

Hello bjs1

As I said - "One man's gravy is another man's sun- cream"

pagan
noun
(especially in historical contexts) a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main or recognized religions.
"the incoming Germanic peoples were pagans"
(especially in historical contexts) holding or constituting religious beliefs other than those of the main or recognized religions.
"a pagan god"

If you can distinguish between a pagan and an agnostic, go ahead. Are they extinct? Enjoyed the chat!.

[JehovahsWitness]

Keep dreaming, JW. ...

If by your response you are implying I have said someting inaccurate please support that.

Biblically worship of the God of Abraham predates any pagan deviation . Indeed according to scripture, worship of YHWH (Jehovah) predates there being rocks or even a moon for a pagan to bow down to.

Isaiah 44:13-19 MSG


The woodworker ... He first cuts down a cedar, or maybe picks out a pine or oak, and lets it grow strong in the forest, nourished by the rain. Then it can serve a double purpose: Part he uses as firewood for keeping warm and baking bread; from the other part he makes a god that he worships—carves it into a god shape and prays before it. With half he makes a fire to warm himself and barbecue his supper. He eats his fill and sits back satisfied with his stomach full and his feet warmed by the fire: “Ah, this is the life.”

And he still has half left for a god, made to his personal design—a handy, convenient no-god to worship whenever so inclined. Whenever the need strikes him he prays to it, “Save me. You’re my god.”

Pretty stupid, wouldn’t you say? Don’t they have eyes in their heads? Are their brains working at all? Doesn’t it occur to them to say, “Half of this tree I used for firewood: I baked bread, roasted meat, and enjoyed a good meal. And now I’ve used the rest to make a repulsive no-god. Here I am praying to a stick of wood!”

[bjs1]

Hello bjs1

As I said - "One man's gravy is another man's sun- cream"

pagan
noun
(especially in historical contexts) a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main or recognized religions.
"the incoming Germanic peoples were pagans"
(especially in historical contexts) holding or constituting religious beliefs other than those of the main or recognized religions.
"a pagan god"

If you can distinguish between a pagan and an agnostic, go ahead. Are they extinct? Enjoyed the chat!.

When comparing religious beliefs, particularly in a historical sense as we are here, the word pagan usually mean:

Pagan: noun; a follower of a polytheistic religion.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/diction ... to%20Hades.

In this case it would be the polytheistic religions in Canaan and the surrounding areas.

Under this more useful definition, pagans and agnostics both still exist and are easily distinguished from each other.

If we define pagan “a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main or recognized religions” then there was a time when Judaism and Christianity were pagan, and the polytheisms of Canaan, Greece and Rome were not pagan. This would cause language to be a point of confusion instead of a means of clarification.

[Difflugia]

If we define pagan “a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main or recognized religions” then there was a time when Judaism and Christianity were pagan, and the polytheisms of Canaan, Greece and Rome were not pagan. This would cause language to be a point of confusion instead of a means of clarification.

The origin of the term "pagan" is from the Latin paganus, which refers to the countryside. The pagan religions were the religions of the bumpkins and hicks (primarily Roman polytheism), while Christianity was the modern religion of the urbanus.

[Masterblaster]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #28]

Hello

Would that make old Abraham ,a Pagan?

[Difflugia]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #28]

Hello

Would that make old Abraham ,a Pagan?

Heh. Probably. And Melchizedek of Salem would have the religion of the urbanus.