Why are Some Christians Upset that Other Theists Accept Darwin?

[Tcg]

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Here is the reaction of one Christian when it was pointed out that some theists accept evolution:

"There are also plenty of theists that don't read the Bible nor attend Church, but they certainly like Darwin."

viewtopic.php?p=1142308#p1142308

Why would the fact that some theists accept reality bother a Christian? What drives this evolution phobia?


Tcg

[Masterblaster]

Hello Tcg

You ask - 'What drives this evolution phobia?'

This is my best idea. If a theist refuses to accept Genesis 1 as allegory, and they cling to a more literal interpretation of the story, then the almost infinite regression, within the evolution tale ,becomes a problem for them. Compare the two approaches...


Man within a primorial bliss, is fast forwarded into a heightened realm of awareness that puts him on his present trajectory. You can put an Adam, made from dirt, and a tree of Good and Evil, and a Eureka! moment into this narrative without much difficulty.

On the other hand if man is an Abrakadabra reveal by God, in his own image and likeness, the last thing you would allow him to be is a monkey. Try attaching doctrine and morality to an ape,...not on their book. Get it?

[TRANSPONDER]

Very good. This (logically) a Problem. If one accepts Deep Time Evolution rather than 6 day Creation, what else should one reject? If Eden is considered a myth, then man is not a sinner and Jesus' death wasn't accomplishing anything.

Of course it's not as simple as that. The Bible (as I see it,anyway) describes a flat earth and sky -dome. Not even creationists accept that. So the way out is to say that that Bible says what science says. We might have seen not long ago an attempt to attempt deny that the Bible says the sun was made later than the earth. Others have tried to make 6 day creation the age of the universe divided by 7. And just ignore day and night, morning and evening of the days.

Many Believers can't do it and they have to pass it off as 'metaphorical'; not true, but all the rest is.

It gets complicated by Shibboleths - certain requirements that are articles of faith and not a subject for consideration, for instance the Ark and Flood is a whole huge debate. But that's really another discussion.

[Masterblaster]

Hello

The problem is more fundamentally confusing than that, TRANSPONDER. The writers of Genesis may have had intuitions regarding evolution that were part of oral tradition and contained within ancient origin myths. Nevertheless, they did not transcribe the stories in an evolutionary mindset. The Jews know a good yarn when they see one.

Now bring on the 1st Century Christian's who are depicting our saviour on the cross. They deep-dive into the Judaic vault and start to make parallels and deductions from what was previously 'allegory'. You mention this,T.

Worse still, in this new twist, man is uniquely unique from the rest of Creation, and he is shown to be physically removed from his natural origins. In the literal interpretation man is now isolated from the God of his origins and he is walking in the wrong direction. This literally means that God has to go out and fetch him back and save him through Jesus, millions of years later.???

If God made and exists within Creation, then we know that nature was never going to drag a supercharged ape back into its subjugation.....enter doctrinal juggling.

The sad part of all this is that man's alienation from creation is enshrined in this fable and the concept is permanently enshrined in our mental perceptions of truth. Genesis was always a justification for Neolithic farm practices and it still is the legal justification for natural pillage.
Thanks

[Masterblaster]

Hello

'Genesis was always a justification for Neolithic farm practices and it still is the legal justification for natural pillage.'

Consider the dynamics of projection.
Much of what we say about others relates to ourselves. If my car is faulty, then , I talk about cars.
Look at the tactics in the Presidential race in the US. As Biden would say, My God!

You can learn from other people's words. Projection often, (until recently), had stealth and deception attached to its use. Look at the top statement and consider the extractions that can been made from the Genesis 1 creation myth.

God throws Adam and his Missus Eve out on their ears. The worlds first eviction for knowing too much. The suggestion in the story is that Adam was a vegetarian ,up to then. Now he needs to claw the dirt and conduct animal husbandry. By the sweat of his brow will he eat bread. His two sons are killing each other, both trying to make ends meet in their different ways . Eve is going to be having more difficult labours, ...figure that out yourselves.

All this is written with regard to pre-history, the stone ages ,going into the Iron Age. Imagine how hard it was for a species that began in the trees to actually cut down those trees to clear land. Imagine justifying it by saying that it was a direct result of our evolutionary release. This is truth.

Fast forward and you have, some Abrahmic faith's who have long rid themselves of the guilt of chopping down trees. Look at the Doomsday Cults that come from this time that tell you to chop down as many as you like because in the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. You will spend eternity living on ???. God told you to do it. Wow!, Now that is a subliminal cop out!

Projection is all over these doctrinal logics, where we coincidentally match the narrative with our intent. Could any species be that lucky?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Psalm 92.....12 The righteous will flourish like a palm tree, they will grow like a cedar of Lebanon;
13 planted in the house of the LORD, they will flourish in the courts of our God.
14 They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,
15 proclaiming, “The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him.”

Read about the Cedars of God, in Lebanon. Trees are sacred in our human past. It is the same situation with regard to our ancient pact with wildlife. Many hunter traditions revered and respected their prey animals. Domestication and the entrapment of animal husbandry, initially carried the guilt and stigma of treachery, within our subconscious.
All that is now, long gone and we do with wildlife as we will. We have convinced ourselves that we are controlling them towards our purpose. For a Christian or a Muslim that means having enough protein to get on the bus out of here. It's all in the Bible, and it is all illuminated by Darwin.

[1213]

Why would the fact that some theists accept reality bother a Christian?

Reality? Why do you think Darwin's imaginations are reality?

[Masterblaster]

[Replying to 1213 in post #7]


Hello

This I consider to be a very good question. Does Darwin's Evolutionary Road-map explain the anomaly within it, that is modern man. Genesis is making an honest attempt to do this. Did Darwin explain the incongruity within the system that is modern human existence.

We do not live from hand to mouth, we do not compete against natural enemies as we did in the past. Our only enemy is ourselves. I suppose you could apply this to competing wolf packs but surely their is a much more sophisticated dynamic happening in modern global conflicts,...maybe not.
Any way you look at it , our reality seems to be an anomaly or an unexplained glitch within the Darwinian reality. Did Darwin allow for us, Tcg?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

As a theist, I am perfectly comfortable with 'Evolution', other theists may have a different attitude. 1213 can speak for himself.

Look at it this way. If you continue to blow up a balloon it will burst. We are comfortable with this perceived logic. The continuous progression and agitation within evolution appeared destined to cause a cataclysmic change at some point. It is easy for me to, now, point posthumously to this ' obvious'
I am interested in this!

The small incremental changes that preceded this 'man event', took place over an unimaginable period of time. This is in complete contrast to the exponential influence of man since that change, over a relatively short period of time.

This is also weird!

The Judaic Origin Myth portrays the Eureka event as a disastrous slip up with everlasting negative reprecussions. This allows them to adopt the attitude. Well, we messed up bad, no going back now, it is what it is and let us get on with getting on.

The Christian interpretation is ' We should have known better, we were disobedient and we will be forgiven over time,...just wait!.

The conclusion seems to be that our enlightened awakening was an encapsulated disaster in our history and that our lack of confidence and readiness for the event predicated doom for us all.

History happens in epochs but myth happens in a few lines of writing or conversation.

In Eden we are naked but in reality we covered our skin...we lit fires, we made ploughs, we made,...it took ages to feel comfortable in our new suits. Unfortunately they turned out to be black....an amazing book, that Bible is!

[TRANSPONDER]

Why would the fact that some theists accept reality bother a Christian?

Reality? Why do you think Darwin's imaginations are reality?

Oh dear I can see our resident rewriter of the Bible is going into science - denial mode.. Do I remember correctly that I (and others) explained in detail with diagrams and maps the Cetan sequence as proof positive of speciation, "Macro" evolution and thus Darwin's theory as being true and real? Or was that someone else?