Job 12: Is God active in the Natural World?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Job12:
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind

Somebody mentioned an Evolution phobia among Christians. What about a complete nature phobia?

Is God still turning up for work in our natural world?
(the best of Biblical Scripture states that he is).

Do you detect God in the natural world?

Why is this aspect of God largely ommitted from doctrine and discussion?
Is the mystical more attractive than the real?
Is Job correct in stating an awareness of God in all of creation?
Your opinion on this matter, please!

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello

Job12:
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind

Somebody mentioned an Evolution phobia among Christians. What about a complete nature phobia?

Is God still turning up for work in our natural world?
(the best of Biblical Scripture states that he is).

Do you detect God in the natural world?

Why is this aspect of God largely ommitted from doctrine and discussion?
Is the mystical more attractive than the real?
Is Job correct in stating an awareness of God in all of creation?
Your opinion on this matter, please!

Someone mentioned that few christians are on the site. With time I can see why. For the atheists, we do not disagree, we have a "phobia." We do not have another view, we are "upset." The very questions asked are insulting. So does not accept the insult and answer? That would be unwise although I have noticed many christians are too unwise to see the problem but simply accept the false accusation and play the game as dictated by the biased atheist. This is another one of those threads. It is more or less, "come you inferior people, explain why you behave so stupidly to us." Assumes facts not in evidence.

From what I see, this is pot -kettle, or rather projection. It has always been the Believers who get upset and accuse the atheists of getting upset; the Therists who accuse atheists of having 'God -phobia' (the term became an atheist bashing meme on my other forum at one time) and though i have never seen 'atheist -phobia' used, I think there may be a real fear of even doubting and questioning what they beleive on Faith.

Faith requires (so I'd perceive it) as not being able to be 'agnostic' about the Bibleclaims - they have to be believed. "Could be true - maybe noit' won';t do. Though some do opt to dump chunks of the Bible and relegate their importance. Notably Genesis and other bits of the OT can be dismised as 'Metaphorical'. Which is to say 'It didn't happen, but it is true because it ascribes these myths to the God who actually does exist'. Even (here) the nativities (once I'd pretty much done a witch -king's helmet -job on them (1) were just waved away as 'not doctrinally important'. But of course, the resurrection (almost as discrepant) cannot be so dismissed. There, the 'phobia' about atheists, Bible skeptics and the like hellbound satanspawn might really be a thing.

"I'm doomed; a slip like that can cause the Great Pumpkin to pass you by." (*Linus after he's said 'If the great pumpkin comes' rather than 'When' indicating a slip of Faith.

(1)

[Mae von H]

Hello

Job12:
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind

Somebody mentioned an Evolution phobia among Christians. What about a complete nature phobia?

Is God still turning up for work in our natural world?
(the best of Biblical Scripture states that he is).

Do you detect God in the natural world?

Why is this aspect of God largely ommitted from doctrine and discussion?
Is the mystical more attractive than the real?
Is Job correct in stating an awareness of God in all of creation?
Your opinion on this matter, please!

Someone mentioned that few christians are on the site. With time I can see why. For the atheists, we do not disagree, we have a "phobia." We do not have another view, we are "upset." The very questions asked are insulting. So does not accept the insult and answer? That would be unwise although I have noticed many christians are too unwise to see the problem but simply accept the false accusation and play the game as dictated by the biased atheist. This is another one of those threads. It is more or less, "come you inferior people, explain why you behave so stupidly to us." Assumes facts not in evidence.

From what I see, this is pot -kettle, or rather projection. It has always been the Believers who get upset and accuse the atheists of getting upset; the Therists who accuse atheists of having 'God -phobia' (the term became an atheist bashing meme on my other forum at one time) and though i have never seen 'atheist -phobia' used, I think there may be a real fear of even doubting and questioning what they beleive on Faith.

Faith requires (so I'd perceive it) as not being able to be 'agnostic' about the Bibleclaims - they have to be believed. "Could be true - maybe noit' won';t do. Though some do opt to dump chunks of the Bible and relegate their importance. Notably Genesis and other bits of the OT can be dismised as 'Metaphorical'. Which is to say 'It didn't happen, but it is true because it ascribes these myths to the God who actually does exist'. Even (here) the nativities (once I'd pretty much done a witch -king's helmet -job on them (1) were just waved away as 'not doctrinally important'. But of course, the resurrection (almost as discrepant) cannot be so dismissed. There, the 'phobia' about atheists, Bible skeptics and the like hellbound satanspawn might really be a thing.

"I'm doomed; a slip like that can cause the Great Pumpkin to pass you by." (*Linus after he's said 'If the great pumpkin comes' rather than 'When' indicating a slip of Faith.

(1)

It is quite possible that I have missed some OP threads by believers that insult atheists, but can you please supply such OPs where christians have asked a question that insulted atheists in the choice of working? Thank you

[Masterblaster]

Hello Mae von H

You enquire"It is quite possible that I have missed some OP threads by believers that insult atheists, but can you please supply such OPs where christians have asked a question that insulted atheists in the choice of working"
-----

Such threads may exist but.....it is definitely not this one. Is there any chance that you might move your car somewhere else. It is rude to park at the Mall and shop across the street. People should make an attempt to reference the Opening Post at least in some way. I have spent alot of time developing interest in this topic.

Forum Rules
4. Stay on the topic of debate. If a topic brings up another issue, start another thread

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Psalm 90
'Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.....'
'17 And let the beauty of the Lord our God be upon us: and establish thou the work of our hands upon us; yea, the work of our hands establish thou it.'
-----
There is an attempt to express, awe and gratitude and confidence in God, contained in these few lines.
God is our dwelling place.???
God is the everyday reference for what we do???

Mankind has done amazing things and they are all contained within Gods memory. The worlds greatest Art has never been seen by anyone except the artist but it is still contained within God's memory. So too are all our atrocities now long forgotten.
Do you believe this?. I do.
Thanks

[Masterblaster]

Hello
Welcome to some very deep Biblical philosophy...

Ecclesiastes 1( The context of Meaningless)
Observe nature as the context within this.



Everything Is Meaningless

3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Thanks

[Masterblaster]

Hello

And finally, do you think that Jesus was familiar with this?
Jeremiah 29
'11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart'

The Jesus message is one of hope and confidence. It is the faith of the Jewish people in their captivity in Babylon. God will bring them home. God today will help us figure out and dispel our weariness and move us, with confidence, towards our preordained future.

Check the stuff out and pick holes in it, if you wish. That is what debate is about.
Thanks

[JehovahsWitness]

Hello JehovahsWitness

... Will there be animals and trees in this Heaven ...?

No.

The bible makes a clear distinction between heaven [the spiritual location of God and the angels ] with Earth [the planet home of humans and the animals]. Scripture promises an earth restored to the paradise like condition of the Garden of Eden. The hope for the majority of mankind is to live forever on EARTH so its here on this planet earth that we will continue to enjoy trees and grass etc. As Well as animals.

Are there animals and trees in the heaven described in heaven? The bible says that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom", so there are no physical creatures in heaven. Heaven is a SPIRITUAL realm so it does evidently does not have the features of our physical carbon based universe.

NOTE The bible book of Revelation presents many SYMBOLS that represent features in heaven but these are not to be taken literally.

The bible promises an EARTHLY paradise with trees and animals

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #72]


You posted " It is quite possible that I have missed some OP threads by believers that insult atheists, but can you please supply such OPs where christians have asked a question that insulted atheists in the choice of working? Thank you"

Sorry, can't do that, as I have seen this 'phobia' on my other forum and in any case, I haven't the time to search for examples. If you want to argue that such things do not happen and Creationists do not get 'upset' with Christian evolutionists, then I am happy to withdraw that point. It makes no real difference to the debate.

The term 'phobia' was used. I referred to the term being thrown at atheists on my other board. But the point is that you get miffed at it. If you can't stand the heat..' as they say. A pretence of being offended is a nice little trick to try to manipulate the debate. Save your trying fingers, it doesn't wash here.

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello Mae von H

You enquire"It is quite possible that I have missed some OP threads by believers that insult atheists, but can you please supply such OPs where christians have asked a question that insulted atheists in the choice of working"
-----

Such threads may exist but.....it is definitely not this one. Is there any chance that you might move your car somewhere else. It is rude to park at the Mall and shop across the street. People should make an attempt to reference the Opening Post at least in some way. I have spent alot of time developing interest in this topic.

Forum Rules
4. Stay on the topic of debate. If a topic brings up another issue, start another thread

The point is noted, but leave it to the Mods to moderate. It is not your job. The fact is that generous leeway is given here to stray off topic, as indeed is your debate with JW about whether there are trees, flowers and animals in heaven. If the mods feel we are drifting too far off topic, they will see fit to tell us.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #72]


You posted " It is quite possible that I have missed some OP threads by believers that insult atheists, but can you please supply such OPs where christians have asked a question that insulted atheists in the choice of working? Thank you"

Sorry, can't do that, as I have seen this 'phobia' on my other forum and in any case, I haven't the time to search for examples. If you want to argue that such things do not happen and Creationists do not get 'upset' with Christian evolutionists, then I am happy to withdraw that point. It makes no real difference to the debate.

The term 'phobia' was used. I referred to the term being thrown at atheists on my other board. But the point is that you get miffed at it. If you can't stand the heat..' as they say. A pretence of being offended is a nice little trick to try to manipulate the debate. Save your trying fingers, it doesn't wash here.

So this was a baseless claim that cannot be substantiated. It remains a phenomenon of the atheists and I admit one line of christian theology that assures them such attacks are forgiven already. Moving on from this question lest MB be offended.