Job 12: Is God active in the Natural World?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Job12:
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind

Somebody mentioned an Evolution phobia among Christians. What about a complete nature phobia?

Is God still turning up for work in our natural world?
(the best of Biblical Scripture states that he is).

Do you detect God in the natural world?

Why is this aspect of God largely ommitted from doctrine and discussion?
Is the mystical more attractive than the real?
Is Job correct in stating an awareness of God in all of creation?
Your opinion on this matter, please!

[1213]

Do you detect God in the natural world?

I think God is the reason why everything is not just equally spread dust. If we look at the nature, everything tends to erode and level up. Even human genome is eroding, getting weaker. Nothing in the nature indicates opposite direction, meaning that things would become more complex and better. And with better I mean in this case for example that DNA changes by errors, which means it was once good, without errors, and what we now have is a bad copy.

[TRANSPONDER]

But the evidence is that there is evolution and extinction. Stars are being created in gas clouds and in the past there were extinctions. (0% of all species went extinct in the past. And new species arose to fill the ecological gaps. Without dinosaur extinctions, we wouldn't be here.

Thus just on past evidence, there is no controlling minds overseeing this stuff; just chance.

One can even argue that things are not declining but getting better. Evidence is that life is better in health, lifestyle, length of life, education, infant survival, quality of life and indeed morals.

All you seem to be able to lament is the decline in surplus fertility when Christianity says we can only have one partner, anyway.



No, the atheist argument is that the world looks just about what we would expect if there was no god there.
Lots of different religions, evils being unchecked, health done through science rather than Faith and knowledge refuting rather than confirming the error -filled Bible.

[JehovahsWitness]

The biblical view is the natural world exists because God designed and created it. That the awsome beauty we see in nature is a reflection of Jehovah's (YHWH) mighty intelligence and unending creativity.

[Masterblaster]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #4]

Hello JehovahsWitness

You say - 'The biblical view is the natural world exists because God designed and created it. That the awsome beauty we see in nature is a reflection of Jehovah's (YHWH) mighty intelligence and unending creativity'
-----
I agree totally. I need you to answer a question, JW. (Please!)
Is the natural world respected within your faith?.
Have you specific environmental directives that you issue?
What are they ,so that these can be used by other Christian denominations?
Is the JehovahsWitness faith a particularly 'green' one?
Thanks

[Masterblaster]

Hello 1213 (Post 2)

You say - 'I think God is the reason why everything is not just equally spread dust.'
-------
I enjoyed your short post 1213. I hope that I understand your observation. It prompts a question from me regarding the logic of what you suggest.

According to you God is stopping the world from dissipating into the waste that its fundamentals suggest it is constantly drawing towards.

Surely God made this world you speak of and its shoddy workings are down to him. If I make something that is inherently useless then it is mine to own and live with.
Is that what you said, 1213???

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

Again ,thank you for your response to this subject. You have been engaging with Christian theists for quite some time. Can I ask you for your insights on this section of the OP.

'Somebody mentioned an Evolution phobia among Christians. What about a complete nature phobia?'

In your objective experience, is this a valid observation? Is there a complete nature phobia, in Christian doctrines and discussions???.

I am an outdoor, 'country boy', and I feel nature in the Jesus psyche, and in the writings of the OT....but in modern Christian churches, all I see are the flowers on the Altars and Angels on high.
Help me,T!

[JehovahsWitness]

Is the natural world respected within your faith?.

Yes.

Have you specific environmental directives that you issue?

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES believe our organisation to be a spiritual not a socio-environmental one and those that take the lead have no authority to issue directives , nor to police matters that are under the domain of personal conscience. That said, the bible does contain principles that should effect every aspect of life and Jehovah Witnesses are taught to be respectful of the planet and life on it, as we believe, all life belongs to God.

Is the JehovahsWitness faith a particularly 'green' one?

Faith does not have a colour and as I said, our religion exists to worship the creator not to support any environmental movements. That said our kingdom halls (church buildings) are built to respect govenmental norms and some of our facilities have even won awards for sustainability. We are proud to say as Christians we strive to show, by the way we live, that we respect the planet that God has given us.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 09_8_VIDEO

The bible states that God will call to account those that are ruin the planet, so naturally we individually and collective behave in a way that shows we believe this to be true.

[Masterblaster]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #8]

Hello JehovahsWitness

Thank You for the open honestly of your response.
I was reading it with incredulity because it was an affirmation of what I thought I knew about virtually all Christians. I would encourage people to dissect your post with reference to their own outlooks on this matter.

Christians like the world and they recognize it's maker but protecting it is not what they do.

BUT

If you offend God with defined sin or disrespect his statutes then we will announce your fate.

My God!

This is either a nature phobia or a subliminal avoidance preference. I am talking about the Christian family and not targeting the JW faith in any way. It reads like you do some very good work.

I will leave you with this.

JehovahsWitness says - "The bible states that God will call to account those that are ruin the planet, so naturally we individually and collective behave in a way that shows we believe this to be true."

So stand back and watch as they meet their doom.

That would be like me watching a guy that I never met, using a Jack-hammer on the side of my house, and waiting for it to fall on himself.Incidentally, I inherited the house from my Father.???

Finally, from OP...

Is the mystical more attractive than the real?

It seems to be!

Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

The biblical view is the natural world exists because God designed and created it. That the awsome beauty we see in nature is a reflection of Jehovah's (YHWH) mighty intelligence and unending creativity.

The secularist view is that nature is indeed awesome and the more we know about it, the more awesome it is and the less to do with the intent of any god. Mostly it is trying to kill us. That's the evidence. That it is all done to look pretty and for our benefit is just not borne out by the evidence.