Job 12: Is God active in the Natural World?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Job12:
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind

Somebody mentioned an Evolution phobia among Christians. What about a complete nature phobia?

Is God still turning up for work in our natural world?
(the best of Biblical Scripture states that he is).

Do you detect God in the natural world?

Why is this aspect of God largely ommitted from doctrine and discussion?
Is the mystical more attractive than the real?
Is Job correct in stating an awareness of God in all of creation?
Your opinion on this matter, please!

[Masterblaster]

Hello

In the olden days of my rural upbringing, there was a naive childlike reverence for God's activity in nature.

We would look at the red berries on the thorn trees in late Autumn and we would agree that the signs were there for a hard Winter.
We looked at ivy berries in the same way. God was putting out enough food for the birds. Before Google Weather Apps, farmers planted crops with guidance from natural intuitions.

It wasn't Paganism, and it wasn't Christianity, but it was visibly real and sincere. I feel God directly in Nature in a myriad of ways and I would suggest that this place is The Well of Knowledge and Theological Wisdom ,for all who wish to drink.

Appraise objectively the Scriptural alternative!
Where would you start to build up your theological core.Nature is specific and do not let them chase you from it. Ponder Scripture within Nature, not Nature within Scripture


Judaic Laws of a Tribal Nomadic Community from thousands of years ago,are mangled with 1st Century Mysticism and then compounded with the conversion coercion tactics of settlers and colonists and then some...where is this thing going. ...go back to looking at the bushes. IMHO

[Masterblaster]

Hello JehovahsWitness

You say - "Believing humans are superior in intellect to animals and inanimate objects is simply a statement of fact "
----
Are you saying that you need a certain amount of intellect to know God. Why would that be so?

I look forward to your answer!

Is nature a background prop for man and God's relationship. Did God send a meteor to kill dinosaurs to clear space for us? Is God setting up the props, ....even if it is just that isn't it a little disrespectful and risky to smear them with filth. Is this a playground where we get to mess up and learn? Is that how Christians see it. That is where orthodoxy leads.

[JehovahsWitness]

Are you saying that you need a certain amount of intellect to know God. Why would that be so?

I look forward to your answer!

To "know" God in as in, understand and love revealed aspects of his personality , yes one does need certain amount of intellect. Why? Because one cannot understand if one is devoid of the ability to reason.

[Masterblaster]

Are you saying that you need a certain amount of intellect to know God. Why would that be so?

I look forward to your answer!

To "know" God in as in, understand and love revealed aspects of his personality , yes one does need certain amount of intellect. Why? Because one cannot understand if one is devoid of the ability to reason.

Hello JehovahsWitness

Are you saying that God is a 'reasoned' deduction?. I thought God was just God.

Can a severely mentally impaired person know God?

Are all other things on different and unique frequencies to God.

What are you saying?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Job12:
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind

According to Job, all these things have a direct and special sense of their specific roles within God. Job describes a symphony of mutuality with God as it's shared reference. Everything knows the song,...except...the flat-head religions who insist on playing the drums and pretending their sheet music is fit for purpose.

[Masterblaster]

Hello

We had a natural primitive past. The Bible records the gradual erosion of the Nature Doctrine that was our primitive engagement with God.

See if you can detect the slide!


Psalm 96:12: Let the field be joyful, and all that is therein: then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice

Psalm 146: Praise the Lord from the earth, you great sea creatures and all deeps, fire and hail, snow and mist, stormy wind fulfilling his word!

Colossians 1:17: He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together

Romans 1:20: For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Orthodox Christian Theism was the last nail in this aspiration. Judaism is still on this earth, which is commendable. Nature is now an instruction manual.
Please do not fold the pages too much.

Thanks


.

[Masterblaster]

Hello JehovahsWitness

You say - "The bible teaches that man was given dominion over the earth to take care of it.
What better reason to respect the environment than to hold it is of divine origin?"

-------
I agree.(Perhaps consider it to be Divine) This is what Bible Genesis 1 said. We described it as a blissful oblivion where God and Man conversed with each other. We knew our place.

Then Judaism, in the rest of the OT, tries to explain farming practice and constant human strife and greed and wars and they explain it all by depicting man's rejection of the God project and his 'go it alone' removal from within God.

They have a new and resentful decree from the smitten God deity. Eat dirt, toil and slave, ball and wail out babies. Follow the discipline of an angry parent and your survival will be granted. I'm watching you, but if you show proper remorse for 'what was your own fault', I will protect your survival and decree you a strip of my creation in which to prosper. You can justify your farming and you can fulfill your original remit to multiply and worship your Creator. Your God will always bail you out, ...that is Judaism in a nutshell.

Christians entrench themselves further into this theistic dogma. Remember the Jews would always have a bail out from God. Well he came to us instead .Now ,instead of a piece of semi-arid real estate, stuck right at the confluence of the world( in the way), I have built an Eden Theme Park, in a different dimension where we can re-live old times.
Keep yourselves busy, ploughing up the place, knock down a few forests, reprogramme a few indigenous, and when you are ready you can leave it all behind you and have a well earned proper rest for Eternity. Pass no heed of that Jewish crowd that I was talking to earlier,...they obviously misinterpreted the deal. Will there be animals and trees in this Heaven, you might ask?? If you want some you can have them. The brochure pictures suggest that there will be some.

I will make Eden great again.(MEGA)

Deal! ???

What do I conclude from all this???

Theistic dogma has always been a quasi-legal document for man to justify the thing that he was going to do anyway. Bad-God is the subconscious excuse to fulfill your own wishes.
Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Masterblaster in post #67]

I like your posts, though I do find it hard to follow the argument you are making at times. But a couple of things - the Bible does try to explain everything luting (I would argue) two origin myths onto the 'historical' records as origin stories (Genesis and exodus) before getting onto the lists of rules intended tom keep the tribe separate from the others with a monotheism with strict observances - which was and is remarkably successful and was even more so when Christianity added missionary activity to segregarianism (tm) and Islam, even more strikingly so when it added Jihad to missionary and a segregation that makes the Japanese look Inclusive.

I could be wrong but it explains a lot - back then and how.

[Mae von H]

Hello

Job12:
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind

Somebody mentioned an Evolution phobia among Christians. What about a complete nature phobia?

Is God still turning up for work in our natural world?
(the best of Biblical Scripture states that he is).

Do you detect God in the natural world?

Why is this aspect of God largely ommitted from doctrine and discussion?
Is the mystical more attractive than the real?
Is Job correct in stating an awareness of God in all of creation?
Your opinion on this matter, please!

Someone mentioned that few christians are on the site. With time I can see why. For the atheists, we do not disagree, we have a "phobia." We do not have another view, we are "upset." The very questions asked are insulting. So does not accept the insult and answer? That would be unwise although I have noticed many christians are too unwise to see the problem but simply accept the false accusation and play the game as dictated by the biased atheist. This is another one of those threads. It is more or less, "come you inferior people, explain why you behave so stupidly to us." Assumes facts not in evidence.

[Masterblaster]

Hello Mae von H

You say - " This is another one of those threads. It is more or less, "come you inferior people, explain why you behave so stupidly to us." Assumes facts not in evidence."

This is refreshingly different and has nothing to do with my characterization of a post of yours on another thread as being condescending ( which it was)...here it is, for others to look at.


You say to TRANSPONDER - "None of what you wrote in the above post matches reality. But it is impossible to explain a relationship with a Being and what that means to someone who does not know that experience. Relationships, what they require and give are powerful and beyond words. The outside of the matter for those who do not partake are just too different. The matter is too deep to understand sans experience. Thank you for the exchange."

You are now plamasing the same person on that thread and lurching in the long grass for me. It is so refreshingly different but you will get no handbags at dawn confrontation from me.

I love this reckless onslaught...where did I say someone was stupid...where does it say someone was inferior....what are my assumed facts....does it matter at all if I did any of this....what matters is that it is in your heart, ...therefore it is correct.

We call this 'letting off steam'
Thanks