Does the true God have a body of flesh and bone?

[Revelations won]

Does the true God have a body of flesh and bone?

According to scripture God and all of us including Christ have a spirit body.

According to the scriptures all of us including Jesus Christ are the literal spirit children of God the father.

According to the New Testament Christs body was crucified and killed. His spirit body however was never dead, for between the death of his physical body his spirit body went unto the spirits in prison and preached repentance unto those who had previously died. This was done before his glorious resurrection.

So do we all including Christ have an immortal body of flesh and bone after our resurrection?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #20]
The New American Standard Bible puts it this way: "For Christ also died for sins once and for all, the just for the unjust, so that he might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and made proclamation to the spirits [demons] now in prison [Tartarus], who were once disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark..." (I Peter 3:18-20) Brackets mine.

It's very clear here that Jesus was raised back to life as a spirit (like he would have to be to enter heaven or any spirit abode such as Tartarus), and this was after the three days that he was in the grave. The spirits he went to speak to were the fallen angels that disobeyed God and came to the earth to cohabit with women, in Noah's day. (Genesis 6:2; 2Peter 2:4,5; Jude 6)

This is not something JWs made up. If you look at the scriptures closely you would be able to see what I am saying is true. Will you compare the verses I cited to you?

[William]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #1]

Does the true God have a body of flesh and bone?

One can argue “Yes” if indeed by “true God” one is attempting to portray truth about the nature of “God” (rather than a distorted representation).

The first thing to ask is what is meant by "flesh and bone" and I offer that it means "matter", in which case it is feasible that "God" can be "outfitted" by the Universe itself. Thus the Universe could be seen as something God could "adorn" or "put on" or "be embodied by".

According to scripture God and all of us including Christ have a spirit body.

What does one mean by "spirit"?

I don't think scripture says God "has" a spirit body, but rather God IS a Spirit (body). Likewise, we do not "have" a "spirit body" - rather we ARE a spirit (body).

Indeed, the "body" part would be unnecessary, unless it is a necessary thing which we as spirits require in order to navigate any situation we may find ourselves being occupied in/with.

The way I have come to understand "spirit" is in the same way I understand "mind" and I think the ancients used the word "spirit" in the same way as we today use the word "mind".

Thus, "God is Mind" is the same/has the same meaning as saying "God is Spirit".

According to the New Testament Christs body was crucified and killed. His spirit body however was never dead, for between the death of his physical body his spirit body went unto the spirits in prison and preached repentance unto those who had previously died. This was done before his glorious resurrection.

That is an interesting concept which aligns with what folk report of their "near death experiences".
If one were to substitute "spirit" for "mind" what you wrote reads like "According to the New Testament Christs body was crucified and killed. His mind body however was never dead, for between the death of his physical body his mind body went unto the minds in prison and preached repentance unto those who had previously died. This was done before his glorious resurrection."

It makes sense of those reports and the idea held by a majority of Christians that there is a Mind Realm where "God lives" (called "Heaven") and this is a separate Realm from the physical universe.

However, there is no practical reason why the physical universe cannot be viewed as a reflection of the mind that made it nor that the mind that made it, cannot fully occupy it. It is a reflection of "heaven" in the sense that it can be contained within the mind that is God.

And that flesh cannot inherit mind is not to say that mind cannot inherit flesh.

What it does signify is that Mind is eternal whereas flesh is subject to change - specifically related to death of said flesh.
Death of the mind which inherited the flesh for a time (human life) does not occur, because Mind is eternal.

Those Christians (and others) who believe they are "the flesh" have yet to come to the realisation that they are not the body (of flesh) but are the mind (eternal) and understanding the idea that Jesus (The Mind of) reportedly ministered to minds imprisoned (in ignorance) since the days of Noah allowing them opportunity to be set free from their ignorance.

Viewed another way, If "God" adorned in the garb of the whole universe were to forget He was Mind, He would effectively be imprisoned by the belief that he was no more (or less) than the stuff of the universe (Galaxies and what have you.)

That is why it is told that the Mind that is GOD (all caps to denote the true) cannot be contained - as The Mind is not only eternal (having always existed) but also infinite.

That is why the realisation of David is expressed that GOD cannot be contained in a couple of stone tablets, a Golden Ark, a magnificent Temple or any other structure - including the universe, or for that matter, any heavenly structure... but "even so" the prayer was that God forgive the seeming indiscretion and acknowledge the effort men put into expressing their minds by creating such things to acknowledge God as they understood God to be, and express that out into the external world via construction and public display.

So do we all including Christ have an immortal body of flesh and bone after our resurrection?

No. How can flesh and bone be immortal? Clearly there is no scripture which tells of such.
The confusion appears to continue from those days that Jesus appeared to folk after being pronounced "dead".
Flesh and bone can't disappear and reappear, walk through walls or shapeshift (change its appearance instantly) or float up into the clouds (defy gravity.)

Yet mind cannot be poked and prodded (as per Thomas) or speak and be heard, without "body" - so what exactly was this body Jesus-mind was "wearing" which could do all these things?

Clearly, whatever it is "made of", it is not "flesh and bone" (blood and nerves et al).

Whatever this resurrected body consists of, it isn't what it once consisted of. Not only is death missing from it, but abilities are added.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to William in post #22]

After the Resurrection all will have bodies just like they had when previously alive, just with no maladies or disfigurements. The Bible speaks of people returning to the days of their youth. "Let his flesh become fresher that in youth, Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor." (Job 33:25, NASB) We will know them when we see them again, right on this earth, in physical bodies. The original plan was to have people living on this earth with physical bodies, with the prospect of living forever here with physical bodies. God's plans haven't failed. They still will be worked out. Jesus died so that we could have what Adam lost.

[William]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #23]

Not sure why you answered my post. Are you agreeing? Disagreeing? Something else?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #23]

Not sure why you answered my post. Are you agreeing? Disagreeing? Something else?

I was agreeing with what you were saying about resurrected bodies not being like they were before they died; the anointed ones would have spirit bodies, and I agree that flesh and bone cannot enter into the spirit realm. The ones who will live on the earth forever will have perfect physical bodies, looking like their pre-death self but only without sickness or disfigurement or old age. Jesus couldn't go through a door in a physical body, so I think I get what you are saying.

Do you agree with what I wrote? If so, I would say that we agree. If you don't agree with some of it, tell me why, please.

(Have you seen some of JWs' tracts? Just wondering.)

[William]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #23]

After the Resurrection all will have bodies just like they had when previously alive, just with no maladies or disfigurements. The Bible speaks of people returning to the days of their youth. "Let his flesh become fresher that in youth, Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor." (Job 33:25, NASB) We will know them when we see them again, right on this earth, in physical bodies. The original plan was to have people living on this earth with physical bodies, with the prospect of living forever here with physical bodies. God's plans haven't failed. They still will be worked out. Jesus died so that we could have what Adam lost.

Not sure why you answered my post. Are you agreeing? Disagreeing? Something else?

I was agreeing with what you were saying about resurrected bodies not being like they were before they died; the anointed ones would have spirit bodies, and I agree that flesh and bone cannot enter into the spirit realm. The ones who will live on the earth forever will have perfect physical bodies, looking like their pre-death self but only without sickness or disfigurement or old age. Jesus couldn't go through a door in a physical body, so I think I get what you are saying.

Do you agree with what I wrote? If so, I would say that we agree. If you don't agree with some of it, tell me why, please.

(Have you seen some of JWs' tracts? Just wondering.)

What I agree with is that there are folk who are attracted to the idea of being a human forever.

The idea is not something I myself am attracted to.

My understanding is that the "spirit realm" is the Realm of The Mind and in that sense, highly condensed matter is "unable" to occupy said Mind, whereas Mind is able to occupy said Universe of condensed matter.

Further to that, my impression is that all things (the universe) exist within the Creator-Mind, and the Creator-Mind is Natural but mistakenly thought of as being "supernatural" - understandable from a human perspective, but still a misinterpretation.

I have seen some of JWs' tracts and these interest me in relation to the beliefs folk have about such things and how these beliefs are imaged.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #23]

After the Resurrection all will have bodies just like they had when previously alive, just with no maladies or disfigurements. The Bible speaks of people returning to the days of their youth. "Let his flesh become fresher that in youth, Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor." (Job 33:25, NASB) We will know them when we see them again, right on this earth, in physical bodies. The original plan was to have people living on this earth with physical bodies, with the prospect of living forever here with physical bodies. God's plans haven't failed. They still will be worked out. Jesus died so that we could have what Adam lost.

Not sure why you answered my post. Are you agreeing? Disagreeing? Something else?

I was agreeing with what you were saying about resurrected bodies not being like they were before they died; the anointed ones would have spirit bodies, and I agree that flesh and bone cannot enter into the spirit realm. The ones who will live on the earth forever will have perfect physical bodies, looking like their pre-death self but only without sickness or disfigurement or old age. Jesus couldn't go through a door in a physical body, so I think I get what you are saying.

Do you agree with what I wrote? If so, I would say that we agree. If you don't agree with some of it, tell me why, please.

(Have you seen some of JWs' tracts? Just wondering.)

What I agree with is that there are folk who are attracted to the idea of being a human forever.

The idea is not something I myself am attracted to.

My understanding is that the "spirit realm" is the Realm of The Mind and in that sense, highly condensed matter is "unable" to occupy said Mind, whereas Mind is able to occupy said Universe of condensed matter.

Further to that, my impression is that all things (the universe) exist within the Creator-Mind, and the Creator-Mind is Natural but mistakenly thought of as being "supernatural" - understandable from a human perspective, but still a misinterpretation.

I have seen some of JWs' tracts and these interest me in relation to the beliefs folk have about such things and how these beliefs are imaged.

How do you think you will go through eternity? With some kind of body or no body?

I want to say that the information on the tracts is straight from the Bible and not imagined (if that's what you meant). I appreciate your candid post.

[William]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #23]

After the Resurrection all will have bodies just like they had when previously alive, just with no maladies or disfigurements. The Bible speaks of people returning to the days of their youth. "Let his flesh become fresher that in youth, Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor." (Job 33:25, NASB) We will know them when we see them again, right on this earth, in physical bodies. The original plan was to have people living on this earth with physical bodies, with the prospect of living forever here with physical bodies. God's plans haven't failed. They still will be worked out. Jesus died so that we could have what Adam lost.

Not sure why you answered my post. Are you agreeing? Disagreeing? Something else?

I was agreeing with what you were saying about resurrected bodies not being like they were before they died; the anointed ones would have spirit bodies, and I agree that flesh and bone cannot enter into the spirit realm. The ones who will live on the earth forever will have perfect physical bodies, looking like their pre-death self but only without sickness or disfigurement or old age. Jesus couldn't go through a door in a physical body, so I think I get what you are saying.

Do you agree with what I wrote? If so, I would say that we agree. If you don't agree with some of it, tell me why, please.

(Have you seen some of JWs' tracts? Just wondering.)

What I agree with is that there are folk who are attracted to the idea of being a human forever.

The idea is not something I myself am attracted to.

My understanding is that the "spirit realm" is the Realm of The Mind and in that sense, highly condensed matter is "unable" to occupy said Mind, whereas Mind is able to occupy said Universe of condensed matter.

Further to that, my impression is that all things (the universe) exist within the Creator-Mind, and the Creator-Mind is Natural but mistakenly thought of as being "supernatural" - understandable from a human perspective, but still a misinterpretation.

I have seen some of JWs' tracts and these interest me in relation to the beliefs folk have about such things and how these beliefs are imaged.

How do you think you will go through eternity? With some kind of body or no body?

I want to say that the information on the tracts is straight from the Bible and not imagined (if that's what you meant). I appreciate your candid post.

Imaged - to make a visual representation of something (imagined or not).

As to your question, eternity is not something one goes through. Bodies are.

[Revelations won]

Dear onewithhim,

I will respond to your post #6 and post 21:

“After the Resurrection all will have bodies just like they had when previously alive, just with no maladies or disfigurements. The Bible speaks of people returning to the days of their youth. "Let his flesh become fresher that in youth, Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor." (Job 33:25, NASB) We will know them when we see them again, right on this earth, in physical bodies. The original plan was to have people living on this earth with physical bodies, with the prospect of living forever here with physical bodies. God's plans haven't failed. They still will be worked out. Jesus died so that we could have what Adam lost.”

You also said in post 21”

The New American Standard Bible puts it this way: "For Christ also died for sins once and for all, the just for the unjust, so that he might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and made proclamation to the spirits [demons] now in prison [Tartarus], who were once disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark..." (I Peter 3:18-20) Brackets mine.

It's very clear here that Jesus was raised back to life as a spirit (like he would have to be to enter heaven or any spirit abode such as Tartarus), and this was after the three days that he was in the grave. The spirits he went to speak to were the fallen angels that disobeyed God and came to the earth to cohabit with women, in Noah's day. (Genesis 6:2; 2Peter 2:4,5; Jude 6)



“The Scriptures do not say anywhere that we all have a spirit body.

My response:

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26
Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.


Christ is indeed our elder brother, for he is indeed the first born all the sons of God.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Christ indeed was the “fist born son of God in heaven” before this world was created. (This was the creation of his spirit body)

As the scripture saith we are all the sons of God. We shouted with joy that we would come to this earth to be tried and tested as a part of our eternal progression as shown to Job.

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2
Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3
Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

You said:
The "spirit" that we have is the breath of God that keeps us alive. Jesus is a spirit person now, yes, and God is a Spirit. (John 4:24) But we humans will never be spirits, unless we are anointed to go to heaven and rule with Christ. The majority of us will be their subjects, which they will guide in making the earth a paradise once more. We will enjoy physical life on this earth, forever. (Psalm 37:29)


You also said:
Further, Jesus was DEAD for three days. His spirit didn't go anywhere because he didn't HAVE a spirit body living within him. When he died, the spirit of God left him and because it wasn't keeping him alive, he truly was dead. He did not go anywhere during those three days. If he wasn't dead then we are still in our sins without hope. You say he wasn't dead.

My response:

No, I say that his physical body was dead, but his spirit body was quickened.

1 Peter 4:6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.


You said:

When he went to "the spirits in prison" that was AFTER he was resurrected on the third day, and the spirits he saw were the demons that disobeyed in the days of Noah. (I Peter 3:18 and 19) Read the account carefully and you will see that he didn't visit dead people, but demons that were subsequently consigned to "Tartarus," which is not an actual place but it is a debased spiritual condition from which they did not warrant the way out. (2Peter 2:4) To say that God has a body of flesh and bone, you are minimizing God. He is glorious, yes, and He is a Spirit (John 4:24) and is too magnificent to be contained in a body of flesh and bone. Flesh cannot inherit life in heaven as it says in I Corinthians 15:50. Please don't twist the scriptures. To say that He can't have a body of "flesh and blood" but can have a body of "flesh and bone" is really a stretch. Either way, flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom in heaven.”

My response:

Your man made doctrine and private interpretation of scripture does not constitute scripture.

Let’s examine what christ did according to scripture:


1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It is very clear that Christ was put to death in the Body of flesh and blood.

His spirit was not dead, but “qickened” and in this state went and preached to the spirits in prison who were sometimes disobedient and were those who lived in the days of Noah. Christ’s very mission was to save souls. He is above all, our only savior and redeemer who will in his mission bring all men unto him.

Why would he preach unto them unless there was a possibility that they might then repent and become worthy of a resurrection? Do you think that it would be just for them to receive a resurrection while they were still unrepentant and enslaved to thier sins? I did not say they would be heirs to the “resurrection of the Just”, but one might ask “is this the very condition of repentance required of them before they could even be a party to the second resurrection that would occur after the millennium?

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56

My response:

Yes indeed, “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God”. I never made such a claim.

I do make the claim that “FLESH AND BONE” can inherit the kingdom of God.

You JW’s claim that in the resurrection that Christ has a spirit body, but does not have a physical body of flesh and bone. You make your “man made testimony” that Jesus does not have a resurrected body of FLESH and BONES, but as for me and my family we will take Christ’s testimony over yours any day!

When the resurrected Lord appeared to his disciples they were affrighted and mistakenly thought that they had seen a spirit. Our resurrected Lord then proceeded to correct their misunderstanding as follows:

Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37
But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38
And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40
And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41
And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42
And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43
And he took it, and did eat before them.
44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #23]

After the Resurrection all will have bodies just like they had when previously alive, just with no maladies or disfigurements. The Bible speaks of people returning to the days of their youth. "Let his flesh become fresher that in youth, Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor." (Job 33:25, NASB) We will know them when we see them again, right on this earth, in physical bodies. The original plan was to have people living on this earth with physical bodies, with the prospect of living forever here with physical bodies. God's plans haven't failed. They still will be worked out. Jesus died so that we could have what Adam lost.

Not sure why you answered my post. Are you agreeing? Disagreeing? Something else?

I was agreeing with what you were saying about resurrected bodies not being like they were before they died; the anointed ones would have spirit bodies, and I agree that flesh and bone cannot enter into the spirit realm. The ones who will live on the earth forever will have perfect physical bodies, looking like their pre-death self but only without sickness or disfigurement or old age. Jesus couldn't go through a door in a physical body, so I think I get what you are saying.

Do you agree with what I wrote? If so, I would say that we agree. If you don't agree with some of it, tell me why, please.

(Have you seen some of JWs' tracts? Just wondering.)

What I agree with is that there are folk who are attracted to the idea of being a human forever.

The idea is not something I myself am attracted to.

My understanding is that the "spirit realm" is the Realm of The Mind and in that sense, highly condensed matter is "unable" to occupy said Mind, whereas Mind is able to occupy said Universe of condensed matter.

Further to that, my impression is that all things (the universe) exist within the Creator-Mind, and the Creator-Mind is Natural but mistakenly thought of as being "supernatural" - understandable from a human perspective, but still a misinterpretation.

I have seen some of JWs' tracts and these interest me in relation to the beliefs folk have about such things and how these beliefs are imaged.

How do you think you will go through eternity? With some kind of body or no body?

I want to say that the information on the tracts is straight from the Bible and not imagined (if that's what you meant). I appreciate your candid post.

Imaged - to make a visual representation of something (imagined or not).

As to your question, eternity is not something one goes through. Bodies are.

Sorry, I thought "imaged" was a typing error.

And you didn't answer my question. I don't understand your response to my last post.