WAS PAUL A FALSE PROPHET?

[Eddie Ramos]

As I search this forum, I see no topic which focuses specifically on whether Paul was a false prophet or not. So, I decided to start a thread on this particular subject because I've been reading by some in this forum that mention that he was, but I have yet to see any biblical evidence presented. So, why not get it straightened out here? I will debate the side that defends Pauls authentic apostleship as being from none other than God and would like anyone who opposes this view (as I know there are some here) to lay it all out according to the scriptures, where they read or see Paul as a false prophet.

However, if your only proof is what you find among the writtings of church history outside of the Bible, then ultimately you're declaring that you have no biblical authority for your position. So, please, post as many scriptures as you'd like for examination.

Acts 9:10–16 (KJV 1900)
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake.

It would seem that the biggest problem with the view of Paul's writtings is the belief that they are in fact Paul's writtings, and that is another huge error. They are God's words, the scribe was just a tool in the hand of God to pen his words, they get zero credit for inspiration.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

I don't think that anyone can find fault with Paul through the Scriptures. I'd like to know where they get the idea that Paul is a false prophet.

[Eddie Ramos]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

I don't think that anyone can find fault with Paul through the Scriptures. I'd like to know where they get the idea that Paul is a false prophet.

Agreed. I just wanted to know what scriptures were being used out of context to make this a firm belief for those who hold to it. Strange what people will believe, all because someone they look up to teaches such things.

[VBprayer]

What scriptural evidence can be presented to support the argument that Paul was a false prophet? Additionally, how do you interpret Acts 9:10–16, where Ananias is instructed by the Lord to go to Saul of Tarsus, later known as Paul, and declares him as a chosen vessel to bear the Lord's name before the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

I don't think that anyone can find fault with Paul through the Scriptures. I'd like to know where they get the idea that Paul is a false prophet.

Agreed. I just wanted to know what scriptures were being used out of context to make this a firm belief for those who hold to it. Strange what people will believe, all because someone they look up to teaches such things.

I think it comes down to some not agreeing with some of the things Paul wrote.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

I don't think that anyone can find fault with Paul through the Scriptures. I'd like to know where they get the idea that Paul is a false prophet.

Agreed. I just wanted to know what scriptures were being used out of context to make this a firm belief for those who hold to it. Strange what people will believe, all because someone they look up to teaches such things.

I think it comes down to some not agreeing with some of the things Paul wrote.

When the message can't be attacked then attack the credibility of the person that gave the message and make them seem untrustworthy. It's the oldest trick in the book, literally.
“You certainly will not die. For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” - Gen 3:4, 5.
Satan couldn't prove the message was wrong but he could make Jehovah look like he was holding something back and that anything he said couldn't be trusted.
Same thing with Paul, those that don't like his message about the end of Mosaic Law covenant and that Jesus was indeed the Christ Moses spoke about coming, since they can't dispute what Paul wrote they attack the person by labeling him as untrustworthy.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

God chooses the most unlikely candidates when selecting individuals to perform leadership roles. Paul did not seek or desire to be an apostle -- he fought it! So he doesn't sound like a "false" apostle. Paul was originally known as Saul and was one of the most notorious persecutors of Christians. Along the road to Damascus God confronted Saul:

And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? (Acts 9:3-4)

Saul turned from persecuting Christians to become the great apostle Paul! Paul is one of my favorite biblical characters because he wrote the one Bible verse which best describes me and my life:

There is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of which I am chief. (I Timothy 1:15)

Others selected by God for some special purpose possessed some human frailty which made them unlikely candidates for the mission ahead. Moses, for example, could barely speak. Paul apparently had none. He was originally a strong, powerful, persuasive, decisive, energetic persecutor of Christians. Incredibly, when God chose him to spread the gospel to the Gentiles, God gave Paul a "thorn in the flesh":

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. (II Corinthians 12:7)

This thorn in the flesh could indicate pain caused by some physical problem. However, it may also indicate pain caused by some psychological problem. In Galatians, Paul describes his infirmity as a temptation:

And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. (Galatians 4:14)

Consider the following verse written by Paul:

For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that I do. (Romans 7:15)

Compare that verse with the definition of "compulsion" as used in psychology:

Compulsion: a strong usually irresistible impulse to perform an act that is contrary to the will of the subject.

Did Paul have a compulsion? Someone suffering from a compulsive behavior will recognize themselves in Romans 7:15 as listed above. That is, what they desire to do (stop the compulsive behavior) they do not. What they do not desire to do (the compulsive behavior) they do. Most, if not all, compulsives desire to stop. Paul may have been an alcoholic, a womanizer, or something more serious, if indeed he suffered from some compulsion. Whether compulsive behavior or a physical condition, Paul prayed for God to remove it:

For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. (II Corinthians 12:8)

Describing his affliction as a "thing" or "it" further indicates Paul may have had a psychological problem. Physical ailments are generally accompanied by obvious symptoms such as bleeding, physical pain, rashes, fever, vomiting, disfigurement, etc. These are obvious conditions which we can see. Mental problems are difficult to comprehend since we cannot "see" them. Therefore, we describe these problems as abnormalities, things, weird, crazy, etc.

If Paul did indeed have a compulsion, then he made a great discovery which is today part of all twelve step rehabilitation programs. That discovery was that he was not sufficiently powerful to stop the behavior on his own. He needed help from a higher authority! Therefore, he prayed to God three times asking that it be removed from him:

For this thing I besought the Lord thrice... (II Corinthians 12:8)

But Paul believed that there was no temptation, no matter how strong, that God did not also provide an escape from that temptation:

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (I Corinthians 10:13)

Regardless of what Paul's thorn in the flesh was, God refused to remove it. Therefore, Paul learned to take pleasure in his infirmities:

For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. (II Corinthians 12:8-10)

WHAT? God's strength is made perfect in our weakness?

Paul's escape from his "temptation" was the realization that his weakness made him a stronger witness for Jesus. Thus Paul came to actually take pleasure in his infirmities. He realized that God made him weak so that others could see what God could accomplish through such a weak person! Regardless of how weak due to physical or mental problems, we are all here for a reason. Never, ever believe you are too weak to fulfill your mission! The weaker you are, the more spectacular "your accomplishment" will be for God's glory. How did other Christians of his day react to Paul's temptation?

Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. (Galatians 4:13-14)

Would today's congregations act accordingly?

False prophet? I think not!

[Eddie Ramos]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

I don't think that anyone can find fault with Paul through the Scriptures. I'd like to know where they get the idea that Paul is a false prophet.

Agreed. I just wanted to know what scriptures were being used out of context to make this a firm belief for those who hold to it. Strange what people will believe, all because someone they look up to teaches such things.

I think it comes down to some not agreeing with some of the things Paul wrote.

Which, in turn, that would mean that they don't agree withthe writtings of God since Paul was just a tool (a pen) to write down the words of the one who inspired (breathed) those words.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

I don't think that anyone can find fault with Paul through the Scriptures. I'd like to know where they get the idea that Paul is a false prophet.

Agreed. I just wanted to know what scriptures were being used out of context to make this a firm belief for those who hold to it. Strange what people will believe, all because someone they look up to teaches such things.

I think it comes down to some not agreeing with some of the things Paul wrote.

I wonder---what things?

[Eddie Ramos]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #1]

I don't think that anyone can find fault with Paul through the Scriptures. I'd like to know where they get the idea that Paul is a false prophet.

Agreed. I just wanted to know what scriptures were being used out of context to make this a firm belief for those who hold to it. Strange what people will believe, all because someone they look up to teaches such things.

I think it comes down to some not agreeing with some of the things Paul wrote.

I wonder---what things?

Anything that is not biblically sound nor supported by the whole of the scriptures. But even many false doctrines atleast atempt to use the Bible in some form, but this one regarding Paul I have yet to see what they are reading in the Bible to lead them to that conclusion. And if nothing in the bIble has led them there, then they are listening to someone else outside of the Bible and that is a dangerous place to be.

Jeremiah 17:5 (KJV 1900)
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm (this means his strength), and whose heart departeth from the LORD.