' Defining Christianity ' How?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

' Houston, we have a problem! '

On the surface of things, Christianity is easy to define. It comes from Christ and Christ comes from the 1st century personage of Jesus.

With the proliferation of interpretation and disagreement around the circumstances of the Jesus happening...the whole thing becomes like a competitive game of stick- stacking. Invariably ,all ends down in a heap.

Define - late Middle English: from Latin definitio(n- ), from the verb definire ‘set bounds to’ (see define).

How do you set bounds to this metropolis of a religious sprawl?

I would start here and probably end very close by.

Matthew 5:16
' Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.'

Start at the table of hard graft.

Question:How would you begin to define Christianity?

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello

We appear to be struggling on this one.
The bottom line for me is to ask the following question.

Is there really enough of a pattern or cohesion to this 'Christianity' thing to warrant a collective term?..

Many denominations are like a brood of ducklings thriving under the assurance of a collective parent. The whole endeavour is blurred, irrevocably!

Christian Unity .....NO!
Definition ......NO!
Recognition and Influence.....????
A communal splash about!

Matthew 5:16
' Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven'

Thanks
(This thread has resurfaced and might be food for thought..."Which Christian denomination is most faithful to the Bible?" historia)

It is tricky to define, it appears to me, wo is a Real Christian and who is not. Unless one goes back to basics and say's as our pal 12134 says, 'one who follows Jesus and keeps his words'. Or as I say,one who believes that Jesus was the messiah who rose from death to life. That is what Paul, the founder of Gentile Christianity, at least, seems to make the thing that saves.

Not differing doctrines, forms of worship or how one decorates places of worship. In my atheist view, all who believe in Jesus and - yes - do his words (as good works doesn't save but doing bad can lose the salvation and never mind Calvinism) are regarded as Christian or given benefit of doubt.

As a reflection for comparison, there are no sects, denominations or kinds of atheists. I have often seen Theists try to split us up into different groups, and I saw a vod listing 'Kinds' of atheists. This is mistaken.

If people do not believe in a god, they are atheist. What they do as a result of that is who the person is. They are still atheist. We have never gone to war over whether our fedoras are permitted hatbands or not.

[Mae von H]

Hello

We appear to be struggling on this one.
The bottom line for me is to ask the following question.

Is there really enough of a pattern or cohesion to this 'Christianity' thing to warrant a collective term?..

Many denominations are like a brood of ducklings thriving under the assurance of a collective parent. The whole endeavour is blurred, irrevocably!

Christian Unity .....NO!
Definition ......NO!
Recognition and Influence.....????
A communal splash about!

Matthew 5:16
' Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven'

Thanks
(This thread has resurfaced and might be food for thought..."Which Christian denomination is most faithful to the Bible?" historia)

Christianity at its core is a relationship. So it’s like answering the question as to how really loves their spouse. If you start to name the measure being deeds, they can be faked, done with no love. If you name a ceremony, the same.

[Masterblaster]

Hello Mae von H

You say - "Christianity at its core is a relationship. So it’s like answering the question as to how really loves their spouse. If you start to name the measure being deeds, they can be faked, done with no love. If you name a ceremony, the same."

-------
I probably, fundamentally, disagree with you (not a problem). You could use a lot of scripture in both OT, and NT, to support your suggestion. I do not see it that way. Work is, love made manifest, in my book.
It is the Ledger.

Matthew 21
'28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.'

Thanks

[Masterblaster]

Hello
It goes on....

Matthew 21

43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44 Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”

It is the tally that counts!

Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello Mae von H

You say - "Christianity at its core is a relationship. So it’s like answering the question as to how really loves their spouse. If you start to name the measure being deeds, they can be faked, done with no love. If you name a ceremony, the same."

-------
I probably, fundamentally, disagree with you (not a problem). You could use a lot of scripture in both OT, and NT, to support your suggestion. I do not see it that way. Work is, love made manifest, in my book.
It is the Ledger.

Matthew 21
'28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.'

Thanks

I get the point. By analogy, both are Christian. They fulfil the essentials; both believe in Jesus. But the difference is that one is a good Christians and the other isn't but both are still Christian, even if there is an inclination that some are going to get higher positions in the heavenly afterlife than others. After all,even if heaven, someone has to sweep up.

Hello
It goes on....

Matthew 21

43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44 Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”

It is the tally that counts!

Thanks

This seems irrelvant within the context of the topic.

Jesus was supposedly talking to Jews (whom nobody even considers Christians or having Faith in Jesus) and is a threat that their failure to believe will cost them their kingdom.

It is nothing to do with who is a 'real Christian' or not.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say - 'It is nothing to do with who is a 'real Christian' or not.'
------

Can I respectfully suggest ,T, that you missed the point completely. I would also suggest that Mae von H, did get it. Please, have another go, and we can talk tomorrow....funeral today.
Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say - 'It is nothing to do with who is a 'real Christian' or not.'
------

Can I respectfully suggest ,T, that you missed the point completely. I would also suggest that Mae von H, did get it. Please, have another go, and we can talk tomorrow....funeral today.
Thanks

Ok.I had a re -read and maybe I did miss the point so I'll have another go.

Ok, Jesusgod knows who really loves him and who doesn't. That is a matter between Jesusgod and the Christian. It's not our business to go into that.

My point - and I think the relevant one - is whether we persons here have any business to say that someone who professes to believe in Jesus is a Christian or not.

By the fruits we may know them and someone who claims to be a Christian but doesn't appear to know what the two Corinthians are may be (we suspect) no more a Christian than a Sentinel Islander.

That said, on the doctrinal basis, for someone who seems a sincere believer, we have no business to say one or the other is not a Christian or a Real Christian.

My best wishes to the deceased and may their afterlife be a happy one. And of course I posted my vid (now looking in rather bad taste) before I read your post.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

Thanks for your kindness and for having another go.

I want you to read this short piece and access the odds of it being true. Give your opinion on this and we will go back to the 44 quote.

Matthew 21:44 Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”

https://jamestabor.com/was-jesus-a-carpenter/

[Mae von H]

Hello

We appear to be struggling on this one.
The bottom line for me is to ask the following question.

Is there really enough of a pattern or cohesion to this 'Christianity' thing to warrant a collective term?..

Many denominations are like a brood of ducklings thriving under the assurance of a collective parent. The whole endeavour is blurred, irrevocably!

Christian Unity .....NO!
Definition ......NO!
Recognition and Influence.....????
A communal splash about!

Matthew 5:16
' Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven'

Thanks
(This thread has resurfaced and might be food for thought..."Which Christian denomination is most faithful to the Bible?" historia)

Real christian unity is probably rare in the west. I have known this and it’s awesome. It’s defined by a certain character of the members. It wasn’t defined by doctrine. We never discussed doctrine. We worshipped and prayed together and none of us had any material wherewithal except a suitcase. But in our individual organized culture, that’s likely not possible. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello TRANSPONDER

Thanks for your kindness and for having another go.

I want you to read this short piece and access the odds of it being true. Give your opinion on this and we will go back to the 44 quote.

Matthew 21:44 Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”

https://jamestabor.com/was-jesus-a-carpenter/

For me, no, because I think pretty much everything said in the gospels is invented, simply because there are major contradictions that can't be waved away with 'eyewitness differences'.

That said, IF one believed the sayings, Jesus appeared to be trained as a builder (tekton) before he gave up working for a living and became a peripatetic televangelists, living off the earnings of a bunch of gullible women, as Luke tells us.

That also said, the line you quoted would possibly be an analogy of Jesus being rejected by the Jews, but was made the capstone of a wall - the simile of Jesus as the head -figure of the church.

He could hardly have expected his listeners to follow him, but then, Mark tells us he deliberately spoke in parables so none but the 'Chosen' would understand him because the intention was already made todo his mission to Israel at the wrong time,so the Jews wouldn't be saved and the temple would be desroyes, as symbolised by the (Mark/Mathew) simile of cursing the fig tree.

I may have said this is all made up by Christians who saw the Jewish war as punishment for the Jews rejecting Jesus and is yet another example of Retrospective Prophecy by the Christian writers, who already held to this dogma and belief.