Genesis 19: Sodom and Gomorrah?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Genesis 19: Sodom and Gomorrah

"19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Could this ever have happened?
Of course it could.

'Reno and Las Vegas'

Care to take a look?

In the middle of a 'religious 'country, the Biblical Sodom and Gomorrah, have been rebuilt,...bring protection. I have been in both these places. Apparently not all chicken ranches serve chicken???

Question - Is Biblical morality redundant in Nevada.?

(Will God send two more Angels? Good luck getting volunteers!)

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Let us use Democratic Principles in all this ( You might say that, that is what we have been doing)

In the UK, at the moment we are posthumously assessing the use of a British Agent 'Stakeknife', to infiltrate the IRA, during the Northern Ireland troubles. The use of this double-agent resulted in consequences that were both ineffective and totally unethical.
There is a paranoia, throughout the Bible about these infiltrators, the fools of Proverbs, the false prophets of Isaiah, or the weeds of the NT.

As I said at the start ,let us use Democracy. The Christian Church leaders should have instructed their congregations to vote against brothels in their Christian Communities. The Pope should be on this.

If the ,'Christians' choose to ignore a denominational decree then, it is up to that leadership to re-evaluate their own relevancy. God forbid that they would attempt tough love, and threaten them with Hell, or something Medieval. That bluff has obviously been called.

In 2024, Christians need to earn respect by how they are consistent in their lifestyles. Otherwise they are double-agents, and damaging.(weeds)

Thanks

[Masterblaster]

Hello Christians

I was watching International Rugby today.

What are the traits of a disjointed scrum, you might ask(unlikely)? Check out the function of a scrum crew.....a disjointed scrum....

"Scrum requires a significant culture change and requires the leadership team to be fully committed to its principles and practices. When this support is not present, the implementation of Scrum can quickly become disjointed and ineffective."

That is 2024 Christianity in a nutshell.

We need to go back to core basics, develop Leadership, and agreed principles. Otherwise we will be ineffective on all levels....

To Christians

1. Find out what Jesus said.
2. Confine yourself to core principles
3. Attempt to implement these to the best of your ability
4. Resist off ramps.
5.Evolve confidence and effectiveness
6.Let your works display the glory of your God.

It is not always the team which sings the anthem best , that wins the match. Will the flag of a contested resurrection lead us,? I think not! Will a promise of an afterlife eternity do it? It might get us to half time! Will fear of failure do it? I doubt it!

Leadership, basic principals and co-operation are our core strengths for success.

In the Bible NT, there are narrow doors and wide paths all over the place. Wild goose chases abound amongst these. Some sign posts have been tampered with.

Buddhism uses this path metaphor as well. Be assured that following the path of basic self-improvement, within Christianity, will entail lots of self-doubt and disappointment..You are warned in advance. Ask for the strength to succeed. That is called Prayer.

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen

Question: Is Christianity disjointed and ineffective in 2024? What is your fix?
Thanks

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You said that I would continue to explore spurious parallels between Reno and Las Vegas and the Biblical Sodom and Gomorrah account. There are many.

If the two Angel's come back they have many natural elements at their disposal to reek havoc on Nevada generally. They have seismic activity drought, a pandemic, whatever.
I was reading the experience of a journalist who took the trip in the laid on taxi from Vegas out to a chicken ranch. It reminded me so much of Lot and his family fleeing to one of the sister towns for refuge so long ago....except in reverse.

I appreciate your efforts as the sole contributor to this thread TRANSPONDER. Sorry for attempting to 'rattle your cage', there is in fact ,a conviction to what you are about.

[Masterblaster]

Question TRANSPONDER


I am intrigued by your logic with regard to Biblical criticism. Everything you say about it displays the suggestion of an underlying hidden agenda being present within the literary ramblings.of the book.

How could that be?

That would suggest a level of coordination and a cohesion across the ages that is simply not there. Your conspiracy vibe fascinates me.

Explain this to me TRANSPONDER.

You adopt the strangest of stray puppies.

You insist that poor Cain , intentionally gets bad press.
The descendants of Lots daughters born out of incest were deliberately tarnished by the narrative for purposes designed to last for perpetuity.

My favourite is your continuous defence of the poor Temple Leaders in the NT. Again these people are being intentionally picked on in a fashion that would be internet trolling, today???

Why do you adopt these curs ,within the Biblical narrative in your constant ' rage against the machine?'
Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You said that I would continue to explore spurious parallels between Reno and Las Vegas and the Biblical Sodom and Gomorrah account. There are many.

If the two Angel's come back they have many natural elements at their disposal to reek havoc on Nevada generally. They have seismic activity drought, a pandemic, whatever.
I was reading the experience of a journalist who took the trip in the laid on taxi from Vegas out to a chicken ranch. It reminded me so much of Lot and his family fleeing to one of the sister towns for refuge so long ago....except in reverse.

I appreciate your efforts as the sole contributor to this thread TRANSPONDER. Sorry for attempting to 'rattle your cage', there is in fact ,a conviction to what you are about.

Rattle whatever you like including the dry bones of the Christian apologetics case. Not to mention the shambling zombie of Rightwing Christian fundamentalism. The more the Bible apologists attempt to argue their case, the better chance we Hellbound atheists have to shoot it down in flames.

Question TRANSPONDER


I am intrigued by your logic with regard to Biblical criticism. Everything you say about it displays the suggestion of an underlying hidden agenda being present within the literary ramblings.of the book.

How could that be?

That would suggest a level of coordination and a cohesion across the ages that is simply not there. Your conspiracy vibe fascinates me.

Explain this to me TRANSPONDER.

You adopt the strangest of stray puppies.

You insist that poor Cain , intentionally gets bad press.
The descendants of Lots daughters born out of incest were deliberately tarnished by the narrative for purposes designed to last for perpetuity.

My favourite is your continuous defence of the poor Temple Leaders in the NT. Again these people are being intentionally picked on in a fashion that would be internet trolling, today???

Why do you adopt these curs ,within the Biblical narrative in your constant ' rage against the machine?'
Thanks

You are inventing ideas of what I do. Where have I everyone in as advocates for tyhe Saducees? Other than to point out that Jesus' arguments often make no sense. Where have I ever gone in as apologist for the Pharisees when I'm an atheist ?I merely point out that Jesus' arguments make no sense - enless to a Christian misleading others to persuade them to become (or stay) Christians, which is the case now as it was then.

What points are you making apart from irelevant nonsense about Rugby and Nevada, never mind traducing me..?

Well nothing other than pot -kettle accusations of bias.

But to be fair, that is where most Bible apologists end up.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say - "Lot's family are depicted as a bad lot, and just like Cain, only exist to set a Babylon -period origin -story (I do not confidently believe) basis why all their descendants were fit only to be the slaves of Israel, and anyone who does not understand that does not understand the Bible."

I will have to trawl through your recent stuff to find 5 defensive apologies by you for the Temple hierarchy. If you had anything about you ,you would save me the torment and just explain why you do it.

You plead - "I ever gone in as apologist for the Pharisees when I'm an atheist"

Your reply is a bitter rant that is laughable. As I said before ,you are not an atheist, you are an anti-theist.
You do atheism a disservice by masquerading as one.

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say - "Lot's family are depicted as a bad lot, and just like Cain, only exist to set a Babylon -period origin -story (I do not confidently believe) basis why all their descendants were fit only to be the slaves of Israel, and anyone who does not understand that does not understand the Bible."

I will have to trawl through your recent stuff to find 5 defensive apologies by you for the Temple hierarchy. If you had anything about you ,you would save me the torment and just explain why you do it.

You plead - "I ever gone in as apologist for the Pharisees when I'm an atheist"

Your reply is a bitter rant that is laughable. As I said before ,you are not an atheist, you are an anti-theist.
You do atheism a disservice by masquerading as one.

Your post is the usual finger -pointing of a Bible apologist who can't fol his opposition. It is without value. Do you have any valid argument to make? If you are willing to trawl through my posts to find some defence of Temple authorities (1st c Jerusalem Temple, of course) good luck. I will answer any points you want to make in that respect.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say about Judas

"So the reason for the betrayal is various and hardly convincing and is just what we get when the writers try to invent a story plot with mechanics and motivations - it is contradictory and structurally poor."

You say about Cain and Lots descendants

"Lot's family are depicted as a bad lot, and just like Cain, only exist to set a Babylon -period origin -story (I do not confidently believe) basis why all their descendants were fit only to be the slaves of Israel, and anyone who does not understand that does not understand the Bible."

I get it, you regard the Bible as worthless lies on a never ending concealed agenda. That was fine with me ,the first time. Is it worth preaching?

TRANSPONDER ,is going to explain our lies to us, and if we do not get it , then we are thick.
Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say about Judas

"So the reason for the betrayal is various and hardly convincing and is just what we get when the writers try to invent a story plot with mechanics and motivations - it is contradictory and structurally poor."

You say about Cain and Lots descendants

Yes.John I think ays Judas had or was 'a devil' right at the time of the calling, and Jesus let him hold the common purse and filch from it. This sounds like a bit of a smear. However the squabble about the waste of the ointment was ascribed to some there in one gospel but just to Judas in another. Judas supposedly goes to the High Priests to sell Jesus out but Luke says that Satan only enteredinto Judas later at the last supper.

The only coherent thread is to make Judas look very bad.

I say about Cain and Lot's descendants. If you read you will see references to their descendants as being the ancestors of Israels political enemies. This is historically improbable and I reckon is a legend to show they are inferiors of the Original descendants of Noah but fit only to be the conquered servants of the hebrews. It is a political polemic fantasy.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You often highlight probabilities of truth that I agree with. I am ,as a theist using this theistic scripture to find guidance and wisdom. I look for Jesus.

Are you attempting to understand ancient mindsets from an historical interest point of view? What do you hope to get( as a declared atheist) from your extensive study of this religious book.?(The Bible)
Is it as simple as having a debating hobby and people to talk to? Nothing wrong with that! imho