Genesis 19: Sodom and Gomorrah?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Genesis 19: Sodom and Gomorrah

"19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Could this ever have happened?
Of course it could.

'Reno and Las Vegas'

Care to take a look?

In the middle of a 'religious 'country, the Biblical Sodom and Gomorrah, have been rebuilt,...bring protection. I have been in both these places. Apparently not all chicken ranches serve chicken???

Question - Is Biblical morality redundant in Nevada.?

(Will God send two more Angels? Good luck getting volunteers!)

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You often highlight probabilities of truth that I agree with. I am ,as a theist using this theistic scripture to find guidance and wisdom. I look for Jesus.

Are you attempting to understand ancient mindsets from an historical interest point of view? What do you hope to get( as a declared atheist) from your extensive study of this religious book.?(The Bible)
Is it as simple as having a debating hobby and people to talk to? Nothing wrong with that! imho

If we can't understand the historical mindset well enough to know what they are talking about, what is the pointnof trying to use their writings to influence our thinking today?

I hope the idea is not that the understanding comes through divine communication rather than reading the Bible (what it says) as this is refuted by the disagreements about what the divine is communicating. It is evidently their own ideas, not God's.

It is odd or curious that at times I have seen atheists accused of 'Bible literalism'. We do of course take the Bible at face value (give or take poetic similes or metaphor) and do not 'interpret' it to mean in some mysterious way, something other than what it says.

But the result of treating the text with respect is that we find it untrustworthy and not deserving of that respect, except as an interesting old book of ancient religious though.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

Another day in the DC trenches!

Explain this to me ,please.

Matthew 21:44
"And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."


You say - 'If we can't understand the historical mindset well enough to know what they are talking about, what is the pointnof trying to use their writings to influence our thinking today?'

You say - 'I hope the idea is not that the understanding comes through divine communication rather than reading the Bible (what it says)'

You say - 'It is odd or curious that at times I have seen atheists accused of 'Bible literalism'. We do of course take the Bible at face value (give or take poetic similes or metaphor) and do not 'interpret' it to mean in some mysterious way, something other than what it says.'

On this sleepy Monday morning,...explain what Matthew 21:44 says,...what is he talking about? Do you agree with the quote?
Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

To me, it's made clear in the context

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

There are many indications that the whole message is retrospective prophecy. The writers (at a date after the Jewish war) reckoned that Jerusalem fell and the temple was destroyed because the Jews did not accept or believe in Jesus.
I also reckon that anyone who reads the gospels without understanding this, will never understand any of it.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say - 'There are many indications that the whole message is retrospective prophecy'

So what is Verse 44 saying that contributes to that?

Matthew 21:44
"And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."

Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say - 'There are many indications that the whole message is retrospective prophecy'

So what is Verse 44 saying that contributes to that?

Matthew 21:44
"And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."

Thanks

Well, as I posted, "43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof"

But there are other gospel passages predicting the fall of Jerusalem(retrospective prophecy).

Obviously the stones of the Temple, not one left on another. Caiaphas in John prophesying that the Roams will take away their kingdom. Though John's take is nonsense. And Jesus lamenting that Jerusalem would not shelter under his wings, or the prophecy of the punishment of Chorazin and other Galilean towns.

No mention of Sepphoris or Jotapa of course, because this was all written after those cities had been destroyed by the time the gospels were written.

There are many passages relating to the Jewish war, purportedly written before it happened.