According to What or Who?

[POI]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

[Masterblaster]

Hello POI

You are justified in your exasperation here.
This is an example of a person looking into a mirror to see God.
They had a mirror in the Harry Potter films that showed you what you want to see.
Otseng is going to show that God is not immoral!
Who said he was, I doubt if you did.
Even if that was your attitude what difference should it make.
God is loving, in the way most theists describe it ,is for the birds. It makes no sense.God is merciful,...the same head-wrecker.


God is God for a theist ( end of)

As a theists, look for God in the real world. Is the east wind loving. Maybe if you want to sail west but not if you forgot your coat.

This loving, caring God is wishful fantasy. That God in any way would correlate to our values is a complete nonsense.

If you believe in a loving God ,then answer this simple question.

Why would God love or care about you as an individual?

When you ask this question they pull out scripture usually John or Genesis, and they adopt the stature of a stubborn horse. This is how they have set themselves and it is usually fruitless to attempt to help or instruct them. They will tangle you up with pseudo-logic, POI. That is what I think. Did Jesus ever say that God loved him?
Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

You have it right: you look into a mirror to see God.

Or you look into your own head. You hear your own brain thinking; I hear my own brain thinking.

The religious thinks it's God. I know it's me.

Delusion is common and self - justifying oneself, which so often comes to be reflected in what religion you have, what nation you belong to, and which team you support, which car you drive and of course what your politics are. And anyone who seeks to undermine that membership, loyalty and Faith is the enemy and violence is not a far -off option.

That's humans. The good and the bad, and it is down to nothing else but instinct and learned instinct.

I have said I know the voice in my head is me, and I know the voice in the head of the religious is them, too, because I have seen a Christian changed his opinion from ET to UR - and God in his head changed His mind, too. Proof, friends, and anyone who says different is in faithbased denail.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say - "Or you look into your own head. You hear your own brain thinking; I hear my own brain thinking. The religious thinks it's God. I know it's me."

---

There you go again, T, overshooting the runway and off into the shrubbery. Let us just deal with the OP and consider a loving, caring, merciful, judgemental, emotional God. Do not extrapolate on extrapolation to find the answer that answers all questions.

Personally, I accepted a God , in lieu of unsatisfactory alternatives. My God owes me nothing. Theism can have legitimacy beyond delusion but let POI run with this God with the nervous twitch, first. Do not extrapolate on my submission as it is likely to blow up beneath you.
Thanks

[TRANSPONDER]

There you go again - trying to tell me what I can and can't post and whow I should conduct myself. I am not going to let you control the discussion and exclude any input you do not want to hear. Mind, I value your input as otherwise Likes are hard to come by.

If I haven't said it before I have evidence that it is all in our own heads.

A believer who changed his mind and so did the god in his head
the many different beliefs and dogmas of people who all claim it's what God wants (if they don't admit they worked it out from scripture and God didn't tell them).

And I have a voice in my head too, but I know it's me.

How - if I an wrong - do you explain why believers who have God communicating with them believe different things?

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You ask - "How - if I am wrong - do you explain why believers who have God communicating with them believe different things?"

-----
Let's add that one to the list.

A communicating God!

Is he intentionally communicating?

Does a walk along the beach intentionally speak to you? Does it say the same thing to you as to the person who is terminally ill, or to the child with a bucket and spade?
Bibles and Scripture have gathered nuanced references of Gods communication and attempted to construct a composite notion of same. This has now deviated within these layers of Scripture,over time ,and has become completely bizarre and wacky. God is on a chair, ...he has rooms, he has books, he has a gate,.......
People can use the most authentic parts of this Scriptural Reference as they need it, but there is more to God than what is written or possibly understood!
We need to observe and feel our existence more. God is a available as a resource regardless of whether we accept God or not.

Did I invent the sequential nature of the waves,?. Did I invent their sound?. Did I invent the vastness? Did I place the dead seagull on the beach? Did I cause the moon to orchestrate the oceans and all the creatures within. Did I make the sea salty and undrinkable for me. Did I make footprints to disappear behind me. What tiny part am I in all of this beach walk as I carry my fears and mental machinations along this seagull's final resting place.
Dismiss this as literary spoof if you like ,T. Alternatively, go for a long walk , and up the level of your theistic enquiries.

[Masterblaster]

Hello

We are the creature of eternal excuses and apologies. It was inevitable that such a creature would create a big brother shoulder to cry on.

We feel guilt while simultaneously relishing guile. Our track record of engaging with general morality is abysmal.

Our self destructive ways have become as equally bizarre and wacky as our dressed up Gods. It was maybe justifiable ( in our books) to clear out the Indians , but can we justify ,as a species, clearing out life sustaining eco- systems in the same way in 2024.

[TRANSPONDER]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You ask - "How - if I am wrong - do you explain why believers who have God communicating with them believe different things?"

-----
Let's add that one to the list.

A communicating God!

Is he intentionally communicating?

Does a walk along the beach intentionally speak to you? Does it say the same thing to you as to the person who is terminally ill, or to the child with a bucket and spade?
Bibles and Scripture have gathered nuanced references of Gods communication and attempted to construct a composite notion of same. This has now deviated within these layers of Scripture,over time ,and has become completely bizarre and wacky. God is on a chair, ...he has rooms, he has books, he has a gate,.......
People can use the most authentic parts of this Scriptural Reference as they need it, but there is more to God than what is written or possibly understood!
We need to observe and feel our existence more. God is a available as a resource regardless of whether we accept God or not.

Did I invent the sequential nature of the waves,?. Did I invent their sound?. Did I invent the vastness? Did I place the dead seagull on the beach? Did I cause the moon to orchestrate the oceans and all the creatures within. Did I make the sea salty and undrinkable for me. Did I make footprints to disappear behind me. What tiny part am I in all of this beach walk as I carry my fears and mental machinations along this seagull's final resting place.
Dismiss this as literary spoof if you like ,T. Alternatively, go for a long walk , and up the level of your theistic enquiries.

Oh please, spare me appeal to the trees and flowers as an advertisement for God. This an old, failed, apologetic for a god (never mind which one).

I am not going to do a dissertation on the Biological hypothesis of awe, wonder, sense of beauty or the need for art, music and dance. It is the other side of the dud coin of 'science destroys th wonder of nature', when what the mean is it turns nature into a stunning natural wonder instead of a cheezy billboard for an inflated hum in the sky.

Let's have some proper apologetics for why we should think the voice we all have in our heads (so do I) is a god, never mind which religion or denomination it is supposed to represent.i

[1213]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

By His actions? Bible tells for example:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Matt. 5:44-45

If we get those things that are said to be signs of God's love, I think we can say He posses those attributes.

[TRANSPONDER]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

By His actions? Bible tells for example:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Matt. 5:44-45

If we get those things that are said to be signs of God's love, I think we can say He posses those attributes.

This means nothing. Which dictator ever pretended to be other than kind, loving and merciful? The fruits we see, are control, exploitation and endless lies. And the ...I almost said it... flying monkeys spread their propaganda and attempt at control and indoctrination, under the delusion that they are doing Good for the fellow man.