According to What or Who?

[POI]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

[TRANSPONDER]

Hewre we see the flawed logical starting point - assuming an objective cosmic lawof morality,rather than it being subjective in that humans codified it and onbjective in that it is based on an innate human preference.

It is striking that it codified in the same preferences in so many different cultures, and those preferences are not always what is considered good.

being well - off is considered desirable, even admirable, and yet riches and wealth is sometimes portrayed as a human moral failing.

Point is, we know what collective opinion is about what is good, just and merciful, and clearly OT God is not, even though the propaganda book claims He is.
I'd even say the insistence on a perfect good and fair being when it so clearly isn't, according to human moral codes is itself a moral failing.

Faith - denialist Faith - is not only irrational, but is a moral failing,not least in that it drives the victim to become abusive and malicious towards those who, not having Faith, can recognise the evil doings,orders,and mindset of the God -character.

It has to be said again that atheists do not of course say hat Biblegod is an evil being, but it is just another invented deity with all the flawed, selfish and unethical views of the ancient people who based the myth on their own preferences

[TRANSPONDER]

Here we see the flawed logical starting point - assuming an objective cosmic law of morality, rather than it being subjective in that humans codified it and objective in that it is based on an innate human preference.

It is striking that it codified in the same preferences in so many different cultures, and those preferences are not always what is considered good: being well - off is considered desirable, even admirable, and yet riches and wealth is sometimes portrayed as a human moral failing.

Point is, we know what collective opinion is about what is good, just and merciful, and clearly OT God is not, even though the propaganda book claims He is.
I'd even say the insistence on a perfect good and fair being when it so clearly isn't, is, according to human moral codes itself a moral failing.

Faith - denialist Faith - is not only irrational, but is a moral failing, not least in that it drives the victim to become abusive and malicious towards those who, not having Faith, can recognise the evil doings,orders,and mindset of the God - character.

It has to be said again that atheists do not of course say that Biblegod is an evil being (a mindset fail of faithbased assumption that the being exists), but it is just another invented deity with all the flawed, selfish and unethical views of the ancient people who based the myth on their own preferences.

[1213]

...Considering the time period in which the assertion was recorded, perhaps female virgins were considered the grand prize to the lustful and horny victorious warriors.

Or perhaps that is just imagination of a modern person, who projects his own ideas to others?

[POI]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

First one would have to ask how a man knows other men have those attributes. Is the inquisitive man able to perceive these qualities in others? By what measure does he know this?

Assuming some humans do possess some/all those traits, I'd then say the Bible-God does not possess the attributes of love, being just, being merciful, etc.

How do you know what those traits are if no human possesses them?

That's not what I said. I said "Assuming some humans do possess some/all those traits, I'd then say the Bible-God does not possess the attributes of love, being just, being merciful, etc."

Why does your position require you to assume that some humans posses good character quality traits? Don’t you see any humans possessing any? It’s like saying “assuming humans have two, not three eyes.”


I seemed to have asked an extremely valid question when I posed the inquiry as to
how do you measure these traits in those you can easily see. You only ASSUME but don’t see any of those traits. It naturally follows that since you cannot see any of those traits in people but just have to “assume” they are there, you cannot possibly see them in God.

So your conclusion fits. Your thought process is quite consistent. Of course your not seeing these traits in God or man doesn’t preclude them being there.

You are not even addressing what I am saying. Let me spell it out for you. Logic dictates that God is not the purveyor of the terms 'love', 'patience', being 'just', or being 'merciful'. His expressed actions, in the Bible, demonstrate against these stated attributes. Some humans possess some of these traits, some of the time, God does not.

[Mae von H]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

First one would have to ask how a man knows other men have those attributes. Is the inquisitive man able to perceive these qualities in others? By what measure does he know this?

Assuming some humans do possess some/all those traits, I'd then say the Bible-God does not possess the attributes of love, being just, being merciful, etc.

How do you know what those traits are if no human possesses them?

That's not what I said. I said "Assuming some humans do possess some/all those traits, I'd then say the Bible-God does not possess the attributes of love, being just, being merciful, etc."

Why does your position require you to assume that some humans posses good character quality traits? Don’t you see any humans possessing any? It’s like saying “assuming humans have two, not three eyes.”


I seemed to have asked an extremely valid question when I posed the inquiry as to
how do you measure these traits in those you can easily see. You only ASSUME but don’t see any of those traits. It naturally follows that since you cannot see any of those traits in people but just have to “assume” they are there, you cannot possibly see them in God.

So your conclusion fits. Your thought process is quite consistent. Of course your not seeing these traits in God or man doesn’t preclude them being there.

You are not even addressing what I am saying. Let me spell it out for you. Logic dictates that God is not the purveyor of the terms 'love', 'patience', being 'just', or being 'merciful'. His expressed actions, in the Bible, demonstrate against these stated attributes. Some humans possess some of these traits, some of the time, God does not.

Ah, so now you backtrack and admit some people possess some of these traits sometimes. How do you know this?

Again, this is vital. Again, you are blind to what millions see in God so it would help if we could know how you know these qualities appear in some people some time. How do you measure this?

For the record, those who know God find He has the finest moral qualities and in spades. This requires some fairly high standard insight though.


I guess I could grant you the logical conclusion that occurs when a man renders himself blind to those qualities in any one, including yourself we can safely assume.

[POI]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

First one would have to ask how a man knows other men have those attributes. Is the inquisitive man able to perceive these qualities in others? By what measure does he know this?

Assuming some humans do possess some/all those traits, I'd then say the Bible-God does not possess the attributes of love, being just, being merciful, etc.

How do you know what those traits are if no human possesses them?

That's not what I said. I said "Assuming some humans do possess some/all those traits, I'd then say the Bible-God does not possess the attributes of love, being just, being merciful, etc."

Why does your position require you to assume that some humans posses good character quality traits? Don’t you see any humans possessing any? It’s like saying “assuming humans have two, not three eyes.”


I seemed to have asked an extremely valid question when I posed the inquiry as to
how do you measure these traits in those you can easily see. You only ASSUME but don’t see any of those traits. It naturally follows that since you cannot see any of those traits in people but just have to “assume” they are there, you cannot possibly see them in God.

So your conclusion fits. Your thought process is quite consistent. Of course your not seeing these traits in God or man doesn’t preclude them being there.

You are not even addressing what I am saying. Let me spell it out for you. Logic dictates that God is not the purveyor of the terms 'love', 'patience', being 'just', or being 'merciful'. His expressed actions, in the Bible, demonstrate against these stated attributes. Some humans possess some of these traits, some of the time, God does not.

Ah, so now you backtrack and admit some people possess some of these traits sometimes. How do you know this?

Again, this is vital. Again, you are blind to what millions see in God so it would help if we could know how you know these qualities appear in some people some time. How do you measure this?

For the record, those who know God find He has the finest moral qualities and in spades. This requires some fairly high standard insight though.


I guess I could grant you the logical conclusion that occurs when a man renders himself blind to those qualities in any one, including yourself we can safely assume.

1) You either continue to not understand my responses, or, 2) are purposefully offering a strawman. I hope it is still the former, and will elaborate again, just in case it is the former 1).

Take the topic of 'mercy', for example. God is expressed to possess mercy. If this is the case, please explain the many stories offered in the Torah, which defy the basic definition of the term "mercy"? Rather than offer mercy, the Bible God instead provides 'punishment.' My point being, logic dictates that God is not merciful, by defitnion.

[POI]

...Considering the time period in which the assertion was recorded, perhaps female virgins were considered the grand prize to the lustful and horny victorious warriors.

Or perhaps that is just imagination of a modern person, who projects his own ideas to others?

It's the other way around. The modern person does not usually think this way. Virgins are no longer the grand prize; at the same frequency they were back then.

[Mae von H]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

Can you please tell us the answer to your own question? By what standard(s) do you measure the above attributes in anyone?

[Mae von H]

Ok, so, if you would not rape, why do you think someone else would? If you don't like to be accused of wanting to rape others, why it is ok for you to accuse other people for that, without any evidence and without knowing the people?

Please enlighten us... What exactly was the purpose of sparing only the female virgins?

Perhaps there just was no good reason to kill them.

Perhaps? Considering the time period in which the assertion was recorded, perhaps female virgins were considered the grand prize to the lustful and horny victorious warriors.

You never heard of veneral disease? Try looking up the plague of syphilis that hit Europe after sailors returned from Haiti. Sexual purity prevented one from getting this. How come you guys never think of the obvious?

[Mae von H]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

First one would have to ask how a man knows other men have those attributes. Is the inquisitive man able to perceive these qualities in others? By what measure does he know this?

Assuming some humans do possess some/all those traits, I'd then say the Bible-God does not possess the attributes of love, being just, being merciful, etc.

How do you know what those traits are if no human possesses them?

That's not what I said. I said "Assuming some humans do possess some/all those traits, I'd then say the Bible-God does not possess the attributes of love, being just, being merciful, etc."

Why does your position require you to assume that some humans posses good character quality traits? Don’t you see any humans possessing any? It’s like saying “assuming humans have two, not three eyes.”


I seemed to have asked an extremely valid question when I posed the inquiry as to
how do you measure these traits in those you can easily see. You only ASSUME but don’t see any of those traits. It naturally follows that since you cannot see any of those traits in people but just have to “assume” they are there, you cannot possibly see them in God.

So your conclusion fits. Your thought process is quite consistent. Of course your not seeing these traits in God or man doesn’t preclude them being there.

You are not even addressing what I am saying. Let me spell it out for you. Logic dictates that God is not the purveyor of the terms 'love', 'patience', being 'just', or being 'merciful'. His expressed actions, in the Bible, demonstrate against these stated attributes. Some humans possess some of these traits, some of the time, God does not.

Ah, so now you backtrack and admit some people possess some of these traits sometimes. How do you know this?

Again, this is vital. Again, you are blind to what millions see in God so it would help if we could know how you know these qualities appear in some people some time. How do you measure this?

For the record, those who know God find He has the finest moral qualities and in spades. This requires some fairly high standard insight though.


I guess I could grant you the logical conclusion that occurs when a man renders himself blind to those qualities in any one, including yourself we can safely assume.

1) You either continue to not understand my responses, or, 2) are purposefully offering a strawman. I hope it is still the former, and will elaborate again, just in case it is the former 1).

Take the topic of 'mercy', for example. God is expressed to possess mercy. If this is the case, please explain the many stories offered in the Torah, which defy the basic definition of the term "mercy"? Rather than offer mercy, the Bible God instead provides 'punishment.' My point being, logic dictates that God is not merciful, by defitnion.

You point blank refuse to tell us how you know those qualities are present in anyone. Absolutely refuse. Since I wrote you a gentle mail, I am paying attention to learn more about your thinking. Anyway, I will be compliant despite you refusing to do so.

God is merciful but not unjust. Now, you do not bringing any particular example which is disingenuous of you, but as I know all of them, I can answer anyway. God is also the Judge of all the Earth and in order for there to be justice, there has to be an end of patiently waiting for repentance. God punished those who did wrong and refused point blank to stop doing so. Can you see that this is kindness to the victims? God is very merciful to those who repent. He even waits for them to repent enduring the evil they do to other people for a time. But the victims sometimes cry to Him for justice and an end to their suffering. What you are doing is pointing to the one part of the story ignoring the rest. Do you think a judge who sends a serial killer to jail unjust? Ought he to be merciful and let them out? This is what you are suggesting.

Now, if you ever want to understand how He works you are going to have to make yourself read the whole story, not just the bits that prove what you want Him to be. You are going to have to make yourself love truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. If you choose to parse out bits so that you can feel free to accuse Him of evil, you will never arrive at understanding. If you want to be God's prosecutor, accusing Him of evil, you belong to the wrong team. You might want to think about that strategy.