Money!

[POI]

Otseng states the following: "No, being rich is not bad. We have many rich men in the Bible (Abraham, Joseph, Job, David, Solomon, Matthew, Joseph of Arimathea, etc.) and they were not condemned for being rich."

Otseng, and myself, had a recent discussion about Jesus's mention of the rich. He ultimately expressed the above. In an effort to keep the other topic on track, I'm making this new one.

For debate:

1. Is being 'rich' a relative term, or is it instead objective when Jesus/God identifies you as 'rich'?
2. How do you know if Jesus/God deems you as rich or not?
3. Seems Otseng is saying that being rich can change your focus. Money instead becomes your numero uno, or God. And this is why he tells folks to get rid of it, so they no longer prioritize the money/possessions over God. Is this the gist of it here?
4. If being rich is okay, why did Jesus choose to be "poor"? Or did he even have a choice?
5. Would Jesus rather you be rich or poor, and why? Would he choose for you to instead be poor because he knows you may covet these material possessions over him? If so, isn't being rich worse than being poor, according to Jesus?
6. If being rich is such a high risk for no longer keeping your focus on numero uno, (Jesus), then why do so many Christians strive to become rich?

[1213]

...Because Jesus supposedly argued that money was a hindrance, a problem in getting through the narrow gate...

Jesus actually said:

"Most assuredly I say to you, a rich man will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven with difficulty.
Matt. 19:23

He was not speaking of money. Even a poor person can have money.

...and better if we just do like the birds and flowers do and just expect God to provide.

Jesus said:
Therefore, I tell you, don't be anxious for your life: what you will eat, or what you will drink; nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Isn't life more than food, and the body more than clothing? See the birds of the sky, that they don't sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns. Your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren't you of much more value than they? "Which of you, by being anxious, can add one cubit to the measure of his life?
Matt. 6:25-27

The point is, birds don't sow, yet they get food. Is that not true?

And also, being anxious doesn't make you live longer, is that not true?

[TRANSPONDER]

...Because Jesus supposedly argued that money was a hindrance, a problem in getting through the narrow gate...

Jesus actually said:

"Most assuredly I say to you, a rich man will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven with difficulty.
Matt. 19:23

He was not speaking of money. Even a poor person can have money.

...and better if we just do like the birds and flowers do and just expect God to provide.

Jesus said:
Therefore, I tell you, don't be anxious for your life: what you will eat, or what you will drink; nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Isn't life more than food, and the body more than clothing? See the birds of the sky, that they don't sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns. Your heavenly Father feeds them. Aren't you of much more value than they? "Which of you, by being anxious, can add one cubit to the measure of his life?
Matt. 6:25-27

The point is, birds don't sow, yet they get food. Is that not true?

And also, being anxious doesn't make you live longer, is that not true?

The point is, the Gospels badger the faithful to get rid of their money. True, they target the rich on the grounds that having a lot of money will be a barrier to getting through the nacre turnstile to heaven, but it also makes no secret of telling even those with nearly nothing to hand it over. A million pennies helps to gild the learjet, used purely for missionary work.

As for the birds, I already ex[pressed, life it not easy for them, and Q document (I recall it isn't in Mark...nor of course in John) does people a disservice by suggesting that if people give it all to the Church, then God will look after them just as he does the birds, who seem to work as hard as humans do just trying to stay alive.

The Bible is not a good place to go for advice, morals, history or science. I suggest it is not a good book for anything other than to prop up a rickety table.

[POI]

Why do you think so?

Is this a serious question?

What if Jesus it there for me and it means I get money to buy things that I need?

If 'ifs and buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have happier holidays.

It takes you several responses to become relevant to this discussion, and then when you do, this is your responses?

[POI]

Otseng states the following: "No, being rich is not bad. We have many rich men in the Bible (Abraham, Joseph, Job, David, Solomon, Matthew, Joseph of Arimathea, etc.) and they were not condemned for being rich."

Otseng, and myself, had a recent discussion about Jesus's mention of the rich. He ultimately expressed the above. In an effort to keep the other topic on track, I'm making this new one.

For debate:

1. Is being 'rich' a relative term, or is it instead objective when Jesus/God identifies you as 'rich'?
2. How do you know if Jesus/God deems you as rich or not?
3. Seems Otseng is saying that being rich can change your focus. Money instead becomes your numero uno, or God. And this is why he tells folks to get rid of it, so they no longer prioritize the money/possessions over God. Is this the gist of it here?
4. If being rich is okay, why did Jesus choose to be "poor"? Or did he even have a choice?
5. Would Jesus rather you be rich or poor, and why? Would he choose for you to instead be poor because he knows you may covet these material possessions over him? If so, isn't being rich worse than being poor, according to Jesus?
6. If being rich is such a high risk for no longer keeping your focus on numero uno, (Jesus), then why do so many Christians strive to become rich?

I have observed two women, one christian and not, who went from middle class to wealthy (married doctors) and observed the change in character that happened. It was the first time I understood why Jesus said it’s hard(er) for the rich to enter heaven.

The worse change was in the atheist. She really became “full of herself” saying indirectly that she was better than others. She is in a word, now odious. Both became more obsessed with money and were less generous than when poorer. I saw why it’s harder for the rich because of what having money does to them.

Btw, the atheist thinks of herself as “generous” but I observed stingy. I suspect the stingy tell others they’re “generous” because they notice every dime they give and it looms large in their mind. The generous don’t notice or remember or focus on giving because it’s natural and not a BIG deal.

Were you planning on actually answering the OP questions? Here they are again, as a refresher:

1. Is being 'rich' a relative term, or is it instead objective when Jesus/God identifies you as 'rich'?
2. How do you know if Jesus/God deems you as rich or not?
3. Seems Otseng is saying that being rich can change your focus. Money instead becomes your numero uno, or God. And this is why he tells folks to get rid of it, so they no longer prioritize the money/possessions over God. Is this the gist of it here?
4. If being rich is okay, why did Jesus choose to be "poor"? Or did he even have a choice?
5. Would Jesus rather you be rich or poor, and why? Would he choose for you to instead be poor because he knows you may covet these material possessions over him? If so, isn't being rich worse than being poor, according to Jesus?
6. If being rich is such a high risk for no longer keeping your focus on numero uno, (Jesus), then why do so many Christians strive to become rich?

[1213]

Why do you think so?

Is this a serious question?

Yes.

It takes you several responses to become relevant to this discussion, and then when you do, this is your responses?

Yes, if God, or Jesus takes care, it can mean that I get enough money for everything I need.

The point in the Bible is not that people are miserable, but that money, property, or earthly riches don't rule people.

[1213]

The point is, the Gospels badger the faithful to get rid of their money.

I don't think that is true, if you read the whole book. The point is that no one would be poor.

[POI]

The point in the Bible is not that people are miserable, but that money, property, or earthly riches don't rule people.

And to assure money does not rule people, he tells his true followers to give it all away. Have you done so? Is he going to fault you for doing so? NO! So why don't you? Jesus wants you to put your money where your mouth is, and demonstrate you are a true follower.

[1213]

And to assure money does not rule people, he tells his true followers to give it all away....

Please show the scripture that says so.

[TRANSPONDER]

And to assure money does not rule people, he tells his true followers to give it all away....

Please show the scripture that says so.

I have already done so - but your excuse is that Jesus is no longer on earth, so you can ignore what he said to do, if it doesn't suit you. But that's what Christian do, anyway. There is also Matthew on the birds and lilies and giving no thought to tomorrow, and parables about not storing up treasure on earth but treasure in heaven. But when it is inconvenient for you, you ignore, deny or 'Interpret' it so it doesn't inconvenience you.

[POI]

And to assure money does not rule people, he tells his true followers to give it all away....

Please show the scripture that says so.

This answer demonstrates you being disingenuous. You have already been provided a response to this request. You already know there exists verse(s), which demonstrate my given claim. You then responded to it elsewhere. Transponder also told you so.