Otseng stated "Yes, I believe the fall is a thing. As for why, it is out of scope for the current discussion, but can be addressed later."
Your wish has been granted.
For debate: Outside the claim being made from an ancient human writing, why is the assertion of 'the fall' a real thing?
The Fall!
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Re: The Fall!
Post #141[Replying to Wootah in post #140]
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
The Vain Brain is meat headedness having no comprehension of the mind which uses it, refusing to hand over the helm to that mind and refusing to assume its placement as subordinate to the mind. Post #36
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Re: The Fall!
Post #142Can a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
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Re: The Fall!
Post #143Are you declaring God an "object"?Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pmCan a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
The Vain Brain is meat headedness having no comprehension of the mind which uses it, refusing to hand over the helm to that mind and refusing to assume its placement as subordinate to the mind. Post #36
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Re: The Fall!
Post #144Not sure how you asked that from what I am saying.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:45 pmAre you declaring God an "object"?Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pmCan a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
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Re: The Fall!
Post #145Wootah wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:02 amNot sure how you asked that from what I am saying.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:45 pmThat's alright.Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pmCan a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Do you worship this perfect God you believe in?
Are you declaring God an "object"?
The Vain Brain is meat headedness having no comprehension of the mind which uses it, refusing to hand over the helm to that mind and refusing to assume its placement as subordinate to the mind. Post #36
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Re: The Fall!
Post #146Did you forget to type something?William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:14 amWootah wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:02 amNot sure how you asked that from what I am saying.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:45 pmThat's alright.Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pmCan a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Do you worship this perfect God you believe in?
Are you declaring God an "object"?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
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Re: The Fall!
Post #147Please talk us through the logics as to why you think that the creator is perfect.Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pmCan a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
The Vain Brain is meat headedness having no comprehension of the mind which uses it, refusing to hand over the helm to that mind and refusing to assume its placement as subordinate to the mind. Post #36
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Re: The Fall!
Post #148Happy to leave it as a presupposition. My presuppositions is God is perfect, and omnipotent, omniscient etc.William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:37 amPlease talk us through the logics as to why you think that the creator is perfect.Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pmCan a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
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Re: The Fall!
Post #149Good idea. One would be hard-pressed to explain the logic of such a belief.Wootah wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:41 amHappy to leave it as a presupposition. My presuppositions is God is perfect, and omnipotent, omniscient etc.William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:37 amWootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pmCan a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Please talk us through the logics as to why you think that the creator is perfect.
The Vain Brain is meat headedness having no comprehension of the mind which uses it, refusing to hand over the helm to that mind and refusing to assume its placement as subordinate to the mind. Post #36
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Re: The Fall!
Post #150Really? You are hard pressed to understand the universal historical belief in God or gods?William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:52 amGood idea. One would be hard-pressed to explain the logic of such a belief.Wootah wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:41 amHappy to leave it as a presupposition. My presuppositions is God is perfect, and omnipotent, omniscient etc.William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:37 amWootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pmCan a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Please talk us through the logics as to why you think that the creator is perfect.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."