The Fall!

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POI
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The Fall!

Post #1

Post by POI »

Otseng stated "Yes, I believe the fall is a thing. As for why, it is out of scope for the current discussion, but can be addressed later."

Your wish has been granted.

For debate: Outside the claim being made from an ancient human writing, why is the assertion of 'the fall' a real thing?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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William
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Re: The Fall!

Post #141

Post by William »

[Replying to Wootah in post #140]
It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?
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The Vain Brain is meat headedness having no comprehension of the mind which uses it, refusing to hand over the helm to that mind and refusing to assume its placement as subordinate to the mind. Post #36
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Wootah
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Re: The Fall!

Post #142

Post by Wootah »

William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?
Can a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."
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Re: The Fall!

Post #143

Post by William »

Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pm
William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?
Can a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.
Are you declaring God an "object"?
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The Vain Brain is meat headedness having no comprehension of the mind which uses it, refusing to hand over the helm to that mind and refusing to assume its placement as subordinate to the mind. Post #36
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Re: The Fall!

Post #144

Post by Wootah »

William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:45 pm
Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pm
William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?
Can a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.
Are you declaring God an "object"?
Not sure how you asked that from what I am saying.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."
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William
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Re: The Fall!

Post #145

Post by William »

Wootah wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:02 am
William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:45 pm
Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pm
William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?
Can a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.
That's alright.

Do you worship this perfect God you believe in?
Are you declaring God an "object"?
Not sure how you asked that from what I am saying.
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The Vain Brain is meat headedness having no comprehension of the mind which uses it, refusing to hand over the helm to that mind and refusing to assume its placement as subordinate to the mind. Post #36
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Re: The Fall!

Post #146

Post by Wootah »

William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:14 am
Wootah wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:02 am
William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:45 pm
Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pm
William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?
Can a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.
That's alright.

Do you worship this perfect God you believe in?
Are you declaring God an "object"?
Not sure how you asked that from what I am saying.
Did you forget to type something?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."
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William
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Re: The Fall!

Post #147

Post by William »

Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pm
William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?
Can a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.
Please talk us through the logics as to why you think that the creator is perfect.
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The Vain Brain is meat headedness having no comprehension of the mind which uses it, refusing to hand over the helm to that mind and refusing to assume its placement as subordinate to the mind. Post #36
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Re: The Fall!

Post #148

Post by Wootah »

William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:37 am
Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pm
William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?
Can a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.
Please talk us through the logics as to why you think that the creator is perfect.
Happy to leave it as a presupposition. My presuppositions is God is perfect, and omnipotent, omniscient etc.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."
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William
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Re: The Fall!

Post #149

Post by William »

Wootah wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:41 am
William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:37 am
Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pm
William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?
Can a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.

Please talk us through the logics as to why you think that the creator is perfect.
Happy to leave it as a presupposition. My presuppositions is God is perfect, and omnipotent, omniscient etc.
Good idea. :) One would be hard-pressed to explain the logic of such a belief.
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The Vain Brain is meat headedness having no comprehension of the mind which uses it, refusing to hand over the helm to that mind and refusing to assume its placement as subordinate to the mind. Post #36
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Re: The Fall!

Post #150

Post by Wootah »

William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:52 am
Wootah wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:41 am
William wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:37 am
Wootah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:37 pm
William wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:04 pm [Replying to Wootah in post #140]
It is a reality of created things. They are not perfect like God is.
Are you saying that a perfect creator created an imperfect thing?
Can a perfect creator create an perfect object? Can God create God? It seems a logical impossibility to me.

Please talk us through the logics as to why you think that the creator is perfect.
Happy to leave it as a presupposition. My presuppositions is God is perfect, and omnipotent, omniscient etc.
Good idea. :) One would be hard-pressed to explain the logic of such a belief.
Really? You are hard pressed to understand the universal historical belief in God or gods?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."
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