Athanasian Creed - The Man-Made Doctrine

[2timothy316]

For clarity, is the Athanasian Creed found here https://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/c ... sian-creed the accepted belief of the trinity for all trinitarians?
If not what is? Who is reading this creed for the first time? Who considers it to be holy scripture?

The creed ends with "one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully."
If it isn't scripture...How do they have the authority to say such a thing?

[SiNcE_1985]

Show me where in the Bible the Holy Spirit is called "God." While you're at it, show me where it says that Jesus is "God."

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Bold for obvious emphasis.

Tell me, who are the two entities that are being lied to in this scripture?

It's almost funny that you can't see---Jesus himself said that his Father alone was God (John 17:3).

So, my response to that would be this..

Rev 15:4

“Great and marvelous are your deeds,
Lord God Almighty.
Just and true are your ways,
King of the nations.[a]
4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.

Question: Who is being referred to here as "holy", the Father, or the Son?

This is a trick question

He referred to the Father as being his God (John 20:17).

When the Son became lowered himself and became subordinate to the Father (Phil 2:5-9), the Father became his God.

[onewithhim]

Show me where in the Bible the Holy Spirit is called "God." While you're at it, show me where it says that Jesus is "God."

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Bold for obvious emphasis.

Tell me, who are the two entities that are being lied to in this scripture?

There is ONE entity being referred to here--- God. The Holy Spirit is what you might call an extension of God's power, from the Father Himself. It is the Father's active FORCE. It is not really a separate being.

[onewithhim]

Show me where in the Bible the Holy Spirit is called "God." While you're at it, show me where it says that Jesus is "God."

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Bold for obvious emphasis.

Tell me, who are the two entities that are being lied to in this scripture?

It's almost funny that you can't see---Jesus himself said that his Father alone was God (John 17:3).

So, my response to that would be this..

Rev 15:4

“Great and marvelous are your deeds,
Lord God Almighty.
Just and true are your ways,
King of the nations.[a]
4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.

Question: Who is being referred to here as "holy", the Father, or the Son?

This is a trick question

The Father is being referred to here.

[onewithhim]

Show me where in the Bible the Holy Spirit is called "God." While you're at it, show me where it says that Jesus is "God."

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Bold for obvious emphasis.

Tell me, who are the two entities that are being lied to in this scripture?

It's almost funny that you can't see---Jesus himself said that his Father alone was God (John 17:3).

So, my response to that would be this..

Rev 15:4

“Great and marvelous are your deeds,
Lord God Almighty.
Just and true are your ways,
King of the nations.[a]
4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.

Question: Who is being referred to here as "holy", the Father, or the Son?

This is a trick question

He referred to the Father as being his God (John 20:17).

When the Son became lowered himself and became subordinate to the Father (Phil 2:5-9), the Father became his God.

No. Jesus is subordinate to the Father even after returning to heaven. He said of the Father at Revelation 3:12 several decades after he had returned to heaven:

"The one that conquers---I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine."

[historia]

I'll bet you get zero responses. Probably most posters here don't even know what the Athanasian Creed is.

Sadly no other trinitarians are willing to touch this thread.

These comments didn't age well.

For clarity, is the Athanasian Creed . . . the accepted belief of the trinity for all trinitarians? If not what is?

The Eastern churches have never used the Athanasian Creed.

If you're looking for a formal statetment on the Trinity in order to critique the doctrine itself, then, as Tanager pointed out above, the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed -- often just refered to as the Nicene Creed -- is the most widely accepted creedal statement on the Trinity.

Who considers it to be holy scripture?

Literally no one.

Athanasius had the authority of the Roman empire, as he was a bishop of the Roman church.

Athanasius of Alexandria didn't compose the Athanasian Creed.

The Athanasian creed came in the 4th century AD as one attempt to explain the Biblical data

It was more likely written in the late-5th or early-6th Century, since it clearly addresses the Monophysite and Nestorian controversies. It was originally written in Latin and shows signs of dependence on Augustine.

[SiNcE_1985]

Show me where in the Bible the Holy Spirit is called "God." While you're at it, show me where it says that Jesus is "God."

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Bold for obvious emphasis.

Tell me, who are the two entities that are being lied to in this scripture?

It's almost funny that you can't see---Jesus himself said that his Father alone was God (John 17:3).

So, my response to that would be this..

Rev 15:4

“Great and marvelous are your deeds,
Lord God Almighty.
Just and true are your ways,
King of the nations.[a]
4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
and bring glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.

Question: Who is being referred to here as "holy", the Father, or the Son?

This is a trick question

The Father is being referred to here.

Right...it says "you alone are holy", referring to (according to you) the Father.

Yet, Mark 1:24

“What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”

Jesus is identified as Holy.

So, how can the Father alone be holy, when Jesus is also holy.

And the list goes on and on with Jesus being called holy throughout the NT.

Kinda hard to reconcile if Jesus wasn't holy as God is..

Which is why this harmonizes with scripture already shared with me you...with Jesus being called the perfect representation of God (Heb 1:3)...and also with Jesus saying to see him is to see the Father (John 14:9).

[SiNcE_1985]

No. Jesus is subordinate to the Father even after returning to heaven. He said of the Father at Revelation 3:12 several decades after he had returned to heaven:

"The one that conquers---I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine."

And as I pointed out before..

If Jesus can lower himself to be subordinate to Pontius Pilate in order to fulfill his earthly mission, despite the fact that he was a higher being than Pilate..

Then he could also lower himself to be subordinate to the Father...to also fulfill his earthly mission, despite being in God's form, as Phil 2:5-9 indicates.

[SiNcE_1985]

Show me where in the Bible the Holy Spirit is called "God." While you're at it, show me where it says that Jesus is "God."

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Bold for obvious emphasis.

Tell me, who are the two entities that are being lied to in this scripture?

There is ONE entity being referred to here--- God. The Holy Spirit is what you might call an extension of God's power, from the Father Himself. It is the Father's active FORCE. It is not really a separate being.

So basically,

"You lied to God's active force".

Makes no sense.

[historia]

Show me where in the Bible the Holy Spirit is called "God."

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

There is ONE entity being referred to here--- God.

Trinitarians would agree with you that it is God being referred to here.

But, in that case, in this verse the Holy Spirit is implicitly being called "God." That's what you asked for, right?

[2timothy316]

Who considers it to be holy scripture?

Literally no one.

Scripture is defined as: the sacred writings of a religion.

So, the trinity doctrine isn't sacred. Thanks.