GOD'S KINGDOM IS A GOVERNMENT: Why the resistance?

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GOD'S KINGDOM IS A GOVERNMENT: Why the resistance?

Post #1

Post by JehovahsWitness »

I understand that the notion is new to almost everyone but why are so many believers so resistant to the notion of Jesus ruling over the earth (from heaven) to eliminate all human suffering on this planet?

Why do so many Christians praise Jesus as KING but are clearly uncomfortable with him being a KING with this our planet earth as his domain* ? Are Christians so enamoured with human governments that they dont want Christ to take over? WHY the resistance (or avoidance) of the main topic of Jesus preaching?

*King + domain = KINGDOM
LUKE 4:43 NIV

But he said, “I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent
Why do so many that love Jesus and the bible find the idea of a heavenly government taking control of this planet so distasteful or uninteresting or unimportant ? Please help me understand this mystery!


The Good news of the kingdom
viewtopic.php?p=1146570#p1146570
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GOD'S KINGDOM IS A GOVERNMENT: Why the resistance?

Post #31

Post by onewithhim »

2ndpillar2 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:11 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 10:23 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 12:50 am
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:25 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:59 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:20 am I understand that the notion is new to almost everyone but why are so many believers so resistant to the notion of Jesus ruling over the earth (from heaven) to eliminate all human suffering on this planet?

Why do so many Christians praise Jesus as KING but are clearly uncomfortable with him being a KING with this our planet earth as his domain* ? Are Christians so enamoured with human governments that they dont want Christ to take over? WHY the resistance (or avoidance) of the main topic of Jesus preaching?

*King + domain = KINGDOM
LUKE 4:43 NIV

But he said, “I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent
Why do so many that love Jesus and the bible find the idea of a heavenly government taking control of this planet so distasteful or uninteresting or unimprtant ? Please help me understand this mystery!


The Good news of the kingdom
viewtopic.php?p=1146570#p1146570
The kingdom will be ruled by David/son of man (Ezekiel 34 & 37 & Mt 24:29-31 & Daniel 2:45) after all the previous kingdoms have been crushed, all at the same time. He will rule the nations with a "rod of iron" (Rev 19:15) from Jerusalem (Zech 14:16), not from heaven.
But that is where Jesus is---in heaven. He is with the NEW Jerusalem which is in heaven. It is a spiritual Jerusalem, not physical. God and Jesus will be "with" mankind in the same way Jesus is "with" us now. (Matthew 18-20)
If "Jesus" was in your mist, as you say per Matthew 18-20, then why are your prayers unanswered, and the sick remain sick. I am thinking "Jesus" is not with you now, whether you have two or more, or 200,000. The Jerusalem where the "king" will rule, is where the survivors of the nations/Gentiles, with regard to the plagues, will come every year to bow down to the king, or suffer no rain. I am thinking that there is no rain in heaven. With respect to the Jerusalem of the king, it will have its cooking pots made holy, where sacrifice will be boiled. Apparently they will have pot luck dinners. (Zechariah 14:15-21). As for the Jerusalem on earth, which came down from heaven (Rev 21:2), it will have a tree of life, in which to heal the nations/Gentiles (Rev 22:2), whereas outside the gates, are those who lie, murder, etc. (Rev 22:14-15)

Zechariah 14:15-21 So also like this plague will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey and all the cattle that will be in those camps.
16Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

20In that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, “HOLY TO THE LORD.” And the cooking pots in the LORD’S house will be like the bowls before the altar. 21Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts in that day.
You aren't understanding that all those prophecies are now about spiritual Israel and spiritual Jerusalem---the "New Jerusalem."

When Jesus said that he was in their midst, he was referring to the Pharisees and the crowd that had gathered around him. He was in the midst of that crowd, and he wanted them to understand that the King of the Kingdom was there in the midst of the crowd.

Since Israel rejected the Messiah, all the prophecies about physical Israel are now about spiritual Israel and the "Jerusalem above." (Galatians 4:22-26)
Galatians 4 is a bunch of gobble Dee gook.
So now you are cherry-picking which scriptures you want to take seriously. If you discard some Scripture then you have no authority to refer to other Scripture.

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Re: GOD'S KINGDOM IS A GOVERNMENT: Why the resistance?

Post #32

Post by 2ndpillar2 »

onewithhim wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:15 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:11 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 10:23 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 12:50 am
onewithhim wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:25 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:59 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:20 am I understand that the notion is new to almost everyone but why are so many believers so resistant to the notion of Jesus ruling over the earth (from heaven) to eliminate all human suffering on this planet?

Why do so many Christians praise Jesus as KING but are clearly uncomfortable with him being a KING with this our planet earth as his domain* ? Are Christians so enamoured with human governments that they dont want Christ to take over? WHY the resistance (or avoidance) of the main topic of Jesus preaching?

*King + domain = KINGDOM
LUKE 4:43 NIV

But he said, “I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent
Why do so many that love Jesus and the bible find the idea of a heavenly government taking control of this planet so distasteful or uninteresting or unimprtant ? Please help me understand this mystery!


The Good news of the kingdom
viewtopic.php?p=1146570#p1146570
The kingdom will be ruled by David/son of man (Ezekiel 34 & 37 & Mt 24:29-31 & Daniel 2:45) after all the previous kingdoms have been crushed, all at the same time. He will rule the nations with a "rod of iron" (Rev 19:15) from Jerusalem (Zech 14:16), not from heaven.
But that is where Jesus is---in heaven. He is with the NEW Jerusalem which is in heaven. It is a spiritual Jerusalem, not physical. God and Jesus will be "with" mankind in the same way Jesus is "with" us now. (Matthew 18-20)
If "Jesus" was in your mist, as you say per Matthew 18-20, then why are your prayers unanswered, and the sick remain sick. I am thinking "Jesus" is not with you now, whether you have two or more, or 200,000. The Jerusalem where the "king" will rule, is where the survivors of the nations/Gentiles, with regard to the plagues, will come every year to bow down to the king, or suffer no rain. I am thinking that there is no rain in heaven. With respect to the Jerusalem of the king, it will have its cooking pots made holy, where sacrifice will be boiled. Apparently they will have pot luck dinners. (Zechariah 14:15-21). As for the Jerusalem on earth, which came down from heaven (Rev 21:2), it will have a tree of life, in which to heal the nations/Gentiles (Rev 22:2), whereas outside the gates, are those who lie, murder, etc. (Rev 22:14-15)

Zechariah 14:15-21 So also like this plague will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey and all the cattle that will be in those camps.
16Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

20In that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, “HOLY TO THE LORD.” And the cooking pots in the LORD’S house will be like the bowls before the altar. 21Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts in that day.
You aren't understanding that all those prophecies are now about spiritual Israel and spiritual Jerusalem---the "New Jerusalem."

When Jesus said that he was in their midst, he was referring to the Pharisees and the crowd that had gathered around him. He was in the midst of that crowd, and he wanted them to understand that the King of the Kingdom was there in the midst of the crowd.

Since Israel rejected the Messiah, all the prophecies about physical Israel are now about spiritual Israel and the "Jerusalem above." (Galatians 4:22-26)
Galatians 4 is a bunch of gobble Dee gook.
So now you are cherry-picking which scriptures you want to take seriously. If you discard some Scripture then you have no authority to refer to other Scripture.
You refer to the false prophet Paul's, 2 Timothy 3, for your definition of "scripture". That verse refers to the holy words read from Timothy's childhood, which would preclude the NT. The "scriptures" that Yeshua referred to were the Law and the prophets (John 10:35). Your Galatians poofs the "Scriptures". and applies the "leaven"/hypocrisy of the Pharisee Paul, in its place. According to Mt 7:13-15, following the false prophets leads to "destruction". Not heeding the message of Yeshua leads to a great "fall" (Mt 7:27). Ezekiel 37 & Joel 2 & 3 describes the coming judgment and kingdom, comes under the umbrella of the "prophets", and they being scriptural (John 10:35). You are apparently on the wide path, versus the narrow path.

John 10:35 If He called them gods unto whom the Word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

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Re: GOD'S KINGDOM IS A GOVERNMENT: Why the resistance?

Post #33

Post by Purple Knight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:39 amSo basically the resistance is that the words "Jesus (not a human but a mighty spirit) destroying and replacing all human rule " simply does not register in their brains. That's fair enough but why don't they seek clarification? Why launch into a faulty retoric with memes and cartoons without asking for details ?
Basic game theory. Openness to information equals openness to being deceived. I'm looking at this from the perspective of every bit of it being both possible and true (they know it's possible every time, but they can't know if it's true every time; people can lie and say they're the second coming), but people still resisting it, and I get a sort of a-lot-of-boys-cried-wolf.

Lusty King: "I am different from all you earthly beings. I'm divine. So don't pay attention to me beheading all my wives so I can bang new ones. They were evil or something idk."

Rapey King: "I'm divine too. If I rape you in the street that's not real rape. You're not being penetrated by, you know, a sinful thingy. Mine is divine, yeah."

Tyrannical King: "I'm divine, so of course I ask a lot of you. If I whip you, do what a good Christian does and ignore their own suffering. Look to the good of others, like, you know, me. This is all a test."

Jesus: "I'm actually divine and that means I won't-"

People: "Yeah we've heard it all before. Boo. Go away."
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:39 amThanks for sharing though, irrelevancies aside, the idea that the elites that presently run things wouldnt like it is funny to me (read Psalm 2 to see why).
It seems to be funny precisely because that psalm predicts every bit of what I said being true: The elites want to hold onto power. And they do. You don't need a divine revelation to see this. And I don't need to happen to believe the psalm is divine to notice that this is exactly the way the elites act. They tell people they are the breakers of chains, when they are the makers of chains. They're good at mass deception and literally nothing else. I've known the kind of people who make their way by deception, walking around with 10k in their pockets, refreshed daily. It would legit surprise me if half of them could tie their shoes. At this point the machinery so favours them, allowing them to deceive and at the same time, the legal framework magically coalesces to protect them from chargebacks, that they seem to anyone who sees them naked as that poor, totally inept thing evolution made by giving it too much of everything too easily.

But evolution didn't make them. No natural phenomenon or weird geographic anomaly dumped infinite resources on them; they grabbed those resources. From others. They made themselves like this. There are a lot of generally-considered-to-be-evil people I'd speak up for, but if they burn in Hell I'll just kind of shrug my shoulders.

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Re: GOD'S KINGDOM IS A GOVERNMENT: Why the resistance?

Post #34

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Purple Knight wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:53 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:39 amThanks for sharing though, irrelevancies aside, the idea that the elites that presently run things wouldnt like it is funny to me (read Psalm 2 to see why).
It seems to be funny precisely because that psalm predicts every bit of what I said being true...
No, thats not why its funny to me; thanks anyway. Have a Nice day.



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Re: GOD'S KINGDOM IS A GOVERNMENT: Why the resistance?

Post #35

Post by LittleNipper »

2timothy316 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:16 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:41 am
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:34 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:27 am Your "scriptures" are taken from both the "message" of the "son of man" and the "message" of the "enemy"/"devil" as stated by Yeshua in Matthew 13:13-49.
What? State what scriptures I quoted are from the devil.
I stated that the "scriptures" you stated in this instance were from the son of man, not from the devil/"enemy". Your whole world view is of a Gentile church based on the "message" of the "enemy", that being the message of the false prophet Paul. The "message" that is planted right next to the message of the son of man (Mt 13:24-25).

Matthew 13:24
Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25“But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. 26“But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27“The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28“And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29“But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.
I see, well, I don't share your opinion of any part of the Bible as being from the Devil. We are done here. Also, since you are not following the rules of this forum and you don't believe 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 to be true I'm blocking your posts from here on out. Feel free to reply but know that I will not see any of your posts from this day forward. Good bye.
There are portions of scripture that do record the lies that Satan said. So, in fact there are the very words of Satan recorded in the Word of GOD. Satan does in fact take what GOD states and tries to twist it to his advantage. This happen in the Garden. This happened when Satan challenged CHRIST. These are prime examples. Satan knows scripture; however, he doesn't know the time nor the seasons any better than we do.

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Re: GOD'S KINGDOM IS A GOVERNMENT: Why the resistance?

Post #36

Post by 2timothy316 »

LittleNipper wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 6:56 am
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:16 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:41 am
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:34 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:27 am Your "scriptures" are taken from both the "message" of the "son of man" and the "message" of the "enemy"/"devil" as stated by Yeshua in Matthew 13:13-49.
What? State what scriptures I quoted are from the devil.
I stated that the "scriptures" you stated in this instance were from the son of man, not from the devil/"enemy". Your whole world view is of a Gentile church based on the "message" of the "enemy", that being the message of the false prophet Paul. The "message" that is planted right next to the message of the son of man (Mt 13:24-25).

Matthew 13:24
Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25“But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. 26“But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27“The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28“And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29“But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.
I see, well, I don't share your opinion of any part of the Bible as being from the Devil. We are done here. Also, since you are not following the rules of this forum and you don't believe 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 to be true I'm blocking your posts from here on out. Feel free to reply but know that I will not see any of your posts from this day forward. Good bye.
There are portions of scripture that do record the lies that Satan said. So, in fact there are the very words of Satan recorded in the Word of GOD. Satan does in fact take what GOD states and tries to twist it to his advantage. This happen in the Garden. This happened when Satan challenged CHRIST. These are prime examples. Satan knows scripture; however, he doesn't know the time nor the seasons any better than we do.
Yet what the poster that replied to me was saying that everything that the apostle Paul wrote comes from Satan. I do not share this view. Thus I have no desire to debate with someone that writes off whole books of the Bible as works of the Devil. This also violates the rules of this form to say that any part of the Bible isn't true. Particularly whole books of the Bible.

"Therefore, wholesale dismissals of entire books of the Bible are not considered valid here"
viewtopic.php?t=11496

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Re: GOD'S KINGDOM IS A GOVERNMENT: Why the resistance?

Post #37

Post by LittleNipper »

2timothy316 wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:40 am
LittleNipper wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 6:56 am
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:16 pm
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:41 am
2timothy316 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:34 am
2ndpillar2 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:27 am Your "scriptures" are taken from both the "message" of the "son of man" and the "message" of the "enemy"/"devil" as stated by Yeshua in Matthew 13:13-49.
What? State what scriptures I quoted are from the devil.
I stated that the "scriptures" you stated in this instance were from the son of man, not from the devil/"enemy". Your whole world view is of a Gentile church based on the "message" of the "enemy", that being the message of the false prophet Paul. The "message" that is planted right next to the message of the son of man (Mt 13:24-25).

Matthew 13:24
Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25“But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. 26“But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27“The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28“And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29“But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.
I see, well, I don't share your opinion of any part of the Bible as being from the Devil. We are done here. Also, since you are not following the rules of this forum and you don't believe 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 to be true I'm blocking your posts from here on out. Feel free to reply but know that I will not see any of your posts from this day forward. Good bye.
There are portions of scripture that do record the lies that Satan said. So, in fact there are the very words of Satan recorded in the Word of GOD. Satan does in fact take what GOD states and tries to twist it to his advantage. This happen in the Garden. This happened when Satan challenged CHRIST. These are prime examples. Satan knows scripture; however, he doesn't know the time nor the seasons any better than we do.
Yet what the poster that replied to me was saying that everything that the apostle Paul wrote comes from Satan. I do not share this view. Thus I have no desire to debate with someone that writes off whole books of the Bible as works of the Devil. This also violates the rules of this form to say that any part of the Bible isn't true. Particularly whole books of the Bible.

"Therefore, wholesale dismissals of entire books of the Bible are not considered valid here"
viewtopic.php?t=11496
That individual is not a CHRISTIAN. He is trying to discredit Paul because of Paul's sexual views that he regards as bias.

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Re: GOD'S KINGDOM IS A GOVERNMENT: Why the resistance?

Post #38

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #37]
Paul's view on sex was not as some think. He admonished all to treat a woman like a beautiful, valuable individual, (like, one could say, a Ming vase) and treat her with love. The only thing he said that someone could take offense to was that a woman should be silent in the congregation, as to giving instruction on the platform to males. Paul said: "Husbands ought to be loving their wives as their own bodies." (Ephesians 5:28) So even if the command was for women to leave the preaching in the congregation meetings to men, the men must treat their wives with love. He did not have a skewed outlook concerning women.

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