You Don't Need to Believe in the Trinity to be Saved?

[2timothy316]

"Correct view" you say. Clear this up for me. You mean one must believe in the basic belief of the trinity to be saved right?

No, I’m saying the complete opposite. I’m explicitly saying one doesn’t have to have the correct/true view of God’s nature (trinitarian or not) to be saved. I’m saying one can be wrong about the trinity and still be saved.

Is this true? One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

[myth-one.com]

If you love God and you love your neighbor why question this assurance of the conditions required for eternal life given by a Creator Son of God?? Why refute the saying of Jesus??

You are stating the requirements to gain everlasting life prior to the death of Jesus.

Following the death of Jesus, those requirements no longer apply!

Under the New Testament Covenant, one has to simply believe in Jesus as their Savior to gain everlasting life.

[TheHolyGhost]

"Correct view" you say. Clear this up for me. You mean one must believe in the basic belief of the trinity to be saved right?

No, I’m saying the complete opposite. I’m explicitly saying one doesn’t have to have the correct/true view of God’s nature (trinitarian or not) to be saved. I’m saying one can be wrong about the trinity and still be saved.

Is this true? One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

What is the trinity and who is "us"?

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

What the trinity is isn't relevant to this thread. The question is, does one need to believe in the trinity to be saved?

It is relevant to me, and I am reading this thread. Therefore you are wrong.

[konagold3]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #7]
Aloha 2timothy316

You ask : Just so we are clear, someone doesn't have to believe that Jesus is God, because they don't believe in the trinity, and still be saved.

The short and sweet answer is :

Yes!


Given Jesus' answer to the Pharisee, someone who did not believe Jesus was God, or he would have been worshiping and following rather than questioning and attempting to entrap, and therefore he did not believe in the Trinity which includes Jesus, Son of God/Son of Man, as a Divine Personage; and yet this very Person, one third of the Trinity, states that by following the commands to love God completely and ones neighbors as oneself; that by doing so the Pharisee would "inherit eternal life"!!!

A case of the last being first-

If then the first is last -

Then we all are equal in the end -

Each of us a ascendant son or daughter of -

The ever Living, Loving, Creator, -

our Heavenly Daddy

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #7]
Aloha 2timothy316

You ask : Just so we are clear, someone doesn't have to believe that Jesus is God, because they don't believe in the trinity, and still be saved.

The short and sweet answer is :

Yes!


Given Jesus' answer to the Pharisee, someone who did not believe Jesus was God, or he would have been worshiping and following rather than questioning and attempting to entrap, and therefore he did not believe in the Trinity which includes Jesus, Son of God/Son of Man, as a Divine Personage; and yet this very Person, one third of the Trinity, states that by following the commands to love God completely and ones neighbors as oneself; that by doing so the Pharisee would "inherit eternal life"!!!

A case of the last being first-

If then the first is last -

Then we all are equal in the end -

Each of us a ascendant son or daughter of -

The ever Living, Loving, Creator, -

our Heavenly Daddy

If a person doesn't believe the Jesus is God, from the trinitarin pov doesn't that mean they don't believe in God?

[konagold3]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #11]

Aloha myth-one.com
Mahalo for the reply!

In response to my statement that "If you love God and you love your neighbor why question this assurance of the conditions required for eternal life given by a Creator Son of God?? Why refute the saying of Jesus?"

To which you reply: you are stating the requirements to gain everlasting life prior to the death of Jesus.

Following the death of Jesus, those requirements no longer apply!

Under the New Testament Covenant, one has to simply believe in Jesus as their Savior to gain everlasting life.

While it is everlastingly true that if one believes in Jesus and accepts Him in ones heart they have eternal life.

Two things can be true at the same time it can also be everlastingly true that if one obeys the two Great Commands of the New Covenant upon which 'all the law and prophets hang' one may also have llife eternal
.

It would be presumptuous for mortals to limit the grace and generosity of God who IS love to His children, those whom in their hearts minds and soul love Him and feel His presence and who in reflection of of this deeply felt love in turn love their neighbors as they love themselves, yet know not even the name of Jesus.

No matter what faith, or religion, male, or female, rich or poor, or color of skin, or ethnic heritage: God is no respecter of persons; He loves all His children, each and every one of us; He is our Good Shepherd who would not loose even the least of us!!!

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #11]

Aloha myth-one.com
Mahalo for the reply!

In response to my statement that "If you love God and you love your neighbor why question this assurance of the conditions required for eternal life given by a Creator Son of God?? Why refute the saying of Jesus?"

To which you reply: you are stating the requirements to gain everlasting life prior to the death of Jesus.

Following the death of Jesus, those requirements no longer apply!

Under the New Testament Covenant, one has to simply believe in Jesus as their Savior to gain everlasting life.

While it is everlastingly true that if one believes in Jesus and accepts Him in ones heart they have eternal life.

Two things can be true at the same time it can also be everlastingly true that if one obeys the two Great Commands of the New Covenant upon which 'all the law and prophets hang' one may also have llife eternal
.

It would be presumptuous for mortals to limit the grace and generosity of God who IS love to His children, those whom in their hearts minds and soul love Him and feel His presence and who in reflection of of this deeply felt love in turn love their neighbors as they love themselves, yet know not even the name of Jesus.

No matter what faith, or religion, male, or female, rich or poor, or color of skin, or ethnic heritage: God is no respecter of persons; He loves all His children, each and every one of us; He is our Good Shepherd who would not loose even the least of us!!!

After Jesus died, we fell under the grace of God through Jesus Christ for our salvation, not our works to fulfill the law. So sin no longer controls our salvation:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

We must now believe in Jesus Christ to inherit eternal life. Upon creating a New Testament, the first covenant became the Old Testament:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

When did the Old Testament vanish away and the New Testament become valid?

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth (Hebrews 9:15-17)

A testator is a person who makes a will. "A testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." Therefore, the New Testament became effective and the Old Testament vanished away as a will when Jesus Christ died on the cross. Once the New Testament became the active will, no one could gain eternal life by remaining sinless as required under the Old Testament. The only path to salvation presently is through a belief in Jesus Christ under terms of the New Testament covenant.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

If one loves God and loves their neighbor, then they are a loving person, but that does not meet the one requirement for gaining everlasting life under the New Testament Covenant:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

[onewithhim]

"Correct view" you say. Clear this up for me. You mean one must believe in the basic belief of the trinity to be saved right?

No, I’m saying the complete opposite. I’m explicitly saying one doesn’t have to have the correct/true view of God’s nature (trinitarian or not) to be saved. I’m saying one can be wrong about the trinity and still be saved.

Is this true? One doesn't have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

What is the trinity and who is "us"?

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

The verse doesn't say anything about three Persons talking among themselves. It is undoubtedly God (the Father) and His Son, Jesus. No trinity.

[konagold3]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #16]
Aloha myth-one.com

Again Mahalo for the reply!

You respond with quotes from John that substantiate that the acceptance of Jesus in ones heart and soul vouchsafes eternal life which I have already and continue to acknowledge as a path to eternal life; but Jesus made forever clear that such is not the only way.

Then you in support of the point that supposedly the 'New Covenant" requires only the belief in Jesus to have eternal life, you list several quotes from Paul [Saul]:

Paul is a lessor authority than Jesus -
Paul never dined with Jesus -
Or was ever even the same room -
Or walked with Him in his missions throughout Galilee -
Never heard Jesus give a sermon -
Never witnessed a healing!!!

Rather, as a pharisee, Saul[Paul] persecuted the early followers of Jesus then only after the resurrection and also after being moved and subsequently guilt ridden by Stephen's courageous martyrdom while being stoned to death for proclaiming his faith in Jesus .

Saul driven by shame and guilt and as a result then experiencing hysterical blindness had his 'come to Jesus' moment .

Paul[Saul] a former Pharisee became a earnest and devout believer and became the founder and perpetrator of many early Christian churches and wrote some of the earliest writings of the period these very profound testaments of faith which were thus accepted as Scripture even tho as a 'Johnny-come-lately' he never had any first person relationship with Jesus in the flesh.

That being so the statements of Paul have neither the authority nor the gravitas to be superior to the clear pronouncement of Jesus one of the Divine Persons of the Trinity regarding the eternal fact of attaining eternal life by completely loving God and loving ones neighbors .

The Kingdom of God is within and all who will come are welcome!!!

God The Father and God The Eternal Son and God The Infinite Spirit are not stingy misers in the giving of eternal life .

God wants ALL God's children to survive which is the whole point of the Good Shepard parable.

The rather morbid and negative assertion that Jesus died for the sins of man dilutes and to some degree obscures and deviates from the much more positive and more glorious fact that Jesus LIVES that we may not only love but have abundant life.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #16]
Aloha myth-one.com

Again Mahalo for the reply!

You respond with quotes from John that substantiate that the acceptance of Jesus in ones heart and soul vouchsafes eternal life which I have already and continue to acknowledge as a path to eternal life; but Jesus made forever clear that such is not the only way.

Then you in support of the point that supposedly the 'New Covenant" requires only the belief in Jesus to have eternal life, you list several quotes from Paul [Saul]:

Paul is a lessor authority than Jesus -
Paul never dined with Jesus -
Or was ever even the same room -
Or walked with Him in his missions throughout Galilee -
Never heard Jesus give a sermon -
Never witnessed a healing!!!

Paul wrote Corinthians and he actually knew Jesus Christ in person. In First Corinthians 15:5-8, Paul lists people who saw Jesus after His resurrection from the grave. Paul writes that he was one of these:

And last of all he was seen of me also... (I Corinthians 15:8)

Rather, as a pharisee, Saul[Paul] persecuted the early followers of Jesus then only after the resurrection and also after being moved and subsequently guilt ridden by Stephen's courageous martyrdom while being stoned to death for proclaiming his faith in Jesus .

Saul driven by shame and guilt and as a result then experiencing hysterical blindness had his 'come to Jesus' moment .

Paul[Saul] a former Pharisee became a earnest and devout believer and became the founder and perpetrator of many early Christian churches and wrote some of the earliest writings of the period these very profound testaments of faith which were thus accepted as Scripture even tho as a 'Johnny-come-lately' he never had any first person relationship with Jesus in the flesh.

That being so the statements of Paul have neither the authority nor the gravitas to be superior to the clear pronouncement of Jesus one of the Divine Persons of the Trinity regarding the eternal fact of attaining eternal life by completely loving God and loving ones neighbors .

All scripture is given by inspiration of God...(II Timothy 3:16)

But you seem to claim otherwise. Was anything written by by Paul inspired of God?

The rather morbid and negative assertion that Jesus died for the sins of man dilutes and to some degree obscures and deviates from the much more positive and more glorious fact that Jesus LIVES that we may not only love but have abundant life.

Amen to that! We are not saved by any human sacrifice. Being a man, Jesus' first death was mandatory:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

If He had no choice but to die His first death, then His first death saved no one.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #16]
Aloha myth-one.com

Again Mahalo for the reply!

You respond with quotes from John that substantiate that the acceptance of Jesus in ones heart and soul vouchsafes eternal life which I have already and continue to acknowledge as a path to eternal life; but Jesus made forever clear that such is not the only way.

Then you in support of the point that supposedly the 'New Covenant" requires only the belief in Jesus to have eternal life, you list several quotes from Paul [Saul]:

Paul is a lessor authority than Jesus -
Paul never dined with Jesus -
Or was ever even the same room -
Or walked with Him in his missions throughout Galilee -
Never heard Jesus give a sermon -
Never witnessed a healing!!!

Rather, as a pharisee, Saul[Paul] persecuted the early followers of Jesus then only after the resurrection and also after being moved and subsequently guilt ridden by Stephen's courageous martyrdom while being stoned to death for proclaiming his faith in Jesus .

Saul driven by shame and guilt and as a result then experiencing hysterical blindness had his 'come to Jesus' moment .

Paul[Saul] a former Pharisee became a earnest and devout believer and became the founder and perpetrator of many early Christian churches and wrote some of the earliest writings of the period these very profound testaments of faith which were thus accepted as Scripture even tho as a 'Johnny-come-lately' he never had any first person relationship with Jesus in the flesh.

That being so the statements of Paul have neither the authority nor the gravitas to be superior to the clear pronouncement of Jesus one of the Divine Persons of the Trinity regarding the eternal fact of attaining eternal life by completely loving God and loving ones neighbors .

The Kingdom of God is within and all who will come are welcome!!!

God The Father and God The Eternal Son and God The Infinite Spirit are not stingy misers in the giving of eternal life .

God wants ALL God's children to survive which is the whole point of the Good Shepard parable.

The rather morbid and negative assertion that Jesus died for the sins of man dilutes and to some degree obscures and deviates from the much more positive and more glorious fact that Jesus LIVES that we may not only love but have abundant life.

Show me in the Bible where it says that the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.

The Kingdom is not inside a person. Who was Jesus referring to that were right there in the crowd when he said what he said about the Kingdom? The Pharisees! The Kingdom certainly wasn't inside them! No, Jesus actually said, "The Kingdom is in your midst." Meaning that the King-designate of the Kingdom was there among them. The Kingdom is a real government that will soon rule over the earth.

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder...Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end..." (Isaiah 9:6,7, Revised Standard Version)

"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a Kingdom which shall never be destroyed....It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever." (Daniel 2:44, Revised Standard Version)

Does that sound like something inside people?