Omnipotence and Omniscience

[JoeMama]

The allegedly all-knowing, all-powerful God has the knowledge and power to impart to all of human-kind a certain understanding and ability to achieve salvation, doesn't he?

So, why hasn't he yet done so?

[Clownboat]

Funny thing is that according to the Bible, cowards go to hell. So, I don't see how fear would be the driving force of it's development.

This does not refute what I said about humans fearing what they don't understand which was the mechanism for imagining god concepts. I assume you cannot and so you offer this up as a distraction.

The problem with that is, religions usually lead to even more questions, whole debate sites are formed around those questions.

This does not address the observation that it is folly to pretend that one of these explanations (religions) is more relevant compared to another as they all stem from humans explaining the unknown.

Eventually rulers found religions to be a useful tool to control the masses.

That is also interesting claim, if we consider that Christians were persecuted and killed in the beginning.

Violence is a sad side effect of most religions and their god concepts. Christianity is one of the worst offenders, but religions persecuting other religions is history, not evidence for anything.

[Purple Knight]

The allegedly all-knowing, all-powerful God has the knowledge and power to impart to all of human-kind a certain understanding and ability to achieve salvation, doesn't he?

So, why hasn't he yet done so?

Why do you think He has not already done it?

Maybe he has and it's just being a good person. If it's any kind of ritual then he hasn't, since there's no ritual on earth that everybody knows.

[1213]

The allegedly all-knowing, all-powerful God has the knowledge and power to impart to all of human-kind a certain understanding and ability to achieve salvation, doesn't he?

So, why hasn't he yet done so?

Why do you think He has not already done it?

Maybe he has and it's just being a good person. If it's any kind of ritual then he hasn't, since there's no ritual on earth that everybody knows.

I think I have to explain what I said. To me the word salvation means, sins are forgiven. That is freely, people can't do anything to achieve that. It is not based on merits. It is offered freely for all people. And I think everyone has the ability to accept it. Some just don't want it. Nothing required for that.

But, forgiveness is obviously not very useful, if person after that continues to do bad things. That is why Jesus said, sin no more and taught about change in person. All that is possible for everyone, but not everyone wants it.

[1213]

...This does not refute what I said about humans fearing what they don't understand which was the mechanism for imagining god concepts.

Fear may be the reason to imagine some gods. But, I don't think it is reasonable to claim it would lead to situation where cowards go to hell. Why would a coward invent hell for himself?

they all stem from humans explaining the unknown.

Sorry, I don't believe that.

All evidence points to that religions are formed around something real. For example people without much knowledge worship sticks and stones, or mother earth (=evolution). People who see a plane, may worship it:

https://guardian.ng/life/culture-lifest ... ip-planes/

There seems to be always some paragon or example, something that people have witnessed, that is the foundation of their religion, or beliefs.

[1213]

...I had never become aware that a lack of bravery was the arbiter for hell. Care to explain that?

Bible says the part of cowards is the fire lake. It is not explained why, but maybe it is just one sign of person not being righteous.

But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murder-ers, sexually immoral, sorcerers,{The word for "sorcerers" here also includes users of potions and drugs.} idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
Rev. 21:8

I also don't think much of the suggestion that discussion is not a good thing.

Where do you get the idea that discussion is not a good thing?

[TRANSPONDER]

...I had never become aware that a lack of bravery was the arbiter for hell. Care to explain that?

Bible says the part of cowards is the fire lake. It is not explained why, but maybe it is just one sign of person not being righteous.

But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murder-ers, sexually immoral, sorcerers,{The word for "sorcerers" here also includes users of potions and drugs.} idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
Rev. 21:8

I also don't think much of the suggestion that discussion is not a good thing.

Where do you get the idea that discussion is not a good thing?

When you said "The problem with that is, religions usually lead to even more questions, whole debate sites are formed around those questions."

The implication being that we should not discuss, but just believe. I guess the idea of revelations (apart from my idea that it is a subversive polemic looking for a god -inspired struggle against Rome). is that the cowardly would abandon Christianity under threat and not be willing to be punished for it. But that also suggests that they would do evil for the religion if called on just as in the OT. The problem has always been the tendency to do evil if it seems required by the religion.

But then, your remark above could be read as religions not being a good thing, but then we have irreligious theism, not Christianity.

[1213]

...
Where do you get the idea that discussion is not a good thing?

When you said "The problem with that is, religions usually lead to even more questions, whole debate sites are formed around those questions."

The implication being that we should not discuss, but just believe. ..

I meant, the claim that religions are formed as an answer, is not logical, because they seem to lead to even more questions that needs answers. I don't mean that discussion is not good, it is only the evidence for that religions leads to even more questions.

Asking questions is not bad. I think people should ask more about everything.

[TRANSPONDER]

...
Where do you get the idea that discussion is not a good thing?

When you said "The problem with that is, religions usually lead to even more questions, whole debate sites are formed around those questions."

The implication being that we should not discuss, but just believe. ..

I meant, the claim that religions are formed as an answer, is not logical, because they seem to lead to even more questions that needs answers. I don't mean that discussion is not good, it is only the evidence for that religions leads to even more questions.

Asking questions is not bad. I think people should ask more about everything.

Well I agree with that, but the basic is basics - what can we rely on as validated so the questions move on? Religion provides nothing but faithclaims and denial of other beliefs.

"There are many religions, there is only one science".

We may ask about the ultimate unknowns and indeed the human problems, like evil, injustice and why films now have post - it notes instead of scripts, but science has provided the answers up to now (and the faithful never hesitate to help themselves to all the benefits while slagging science of (but then 'science' means something else to them ) and have heavy doubts that supernatural speculations and even philosophy (such as the Hard Question and dualism) doesn't impress me as having an answer worth hearing, if at all and Theism is no answer, let alone waging about a particular Holy Book and its' god and religion as telling us anything valid.

[TRANSPONDER]

...
Where do you get the idea that discussion is not a good thing?

When you said "The problem with that is, religions usually lead to even more questions, whole debate sites are formed around those questions."

The implication being that we should not discuss, but just believe. ..

I meant, the claim that religions are formed as an answer, is not logical, because they seem to lead to even more questions that needs answers. I don't mean that discussion is not good, it is only the evidence for that religions leads to even more questions.

Asking questions is not bad. I think people should ask more about everything.

Well I agree with that, but the basic is basics - what can we rely on as validated so the questions move on? Religion provides nothing but faithclaims and denial of other beliefs.

"There are many religions, there is only one science".

We may ask about the ultimate unknowns and indeed the human problems, like evil, injustice and why films now have post - it notes instead of scripts, but science has provided the answers up to now (and the faithful never hesitate to help themselves to all the benefits while slagging science of (but then 'science' means something else to them ) and have heavy doubts that supernatural speculations and even philosophy (such as the Hard Question and dualism) doesn't impress me as having an answer worth hearing, if at all and Theism is no answer, let alone waging about a particular Holy Book and its' god and religion as telling us anything valid.

[1213]

"There are many religions, there is only one science".

Nowadays we have also the politized science, that tells what the fascists of this world wants it to tell. It is much like religion once was, the validation for the rulers to control everyone as they wish.

We may ask about the ultimate unknowns and indeed the human problems, like evil, injustice and why films now have post - it notes instead of scripts, but science has provided the answers

It is the people who give answers. Science is only a method to study physical world, it doesn't say anything.