Genesis 3: 21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
This has always bothered me. If there is only one God, and He is the one speaking in this passage, then two things pop out at me.
1) Who is he speaking to?
2) Why does God refer to Adam and Eve becoming one of US? In the plural sense.
Genesis has more than one God?
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Genesis has more than one God?
Post #1What we do for ourselves dies with us,
What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
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Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
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What we do for others and the world remains
and is immortal.
-Albert Pine
Never be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no one persons definition of your life; define yourself.
-Harvey Fierstein
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Willum
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Re: Genesis has more than one God?
Post #81[Replying to post 80 by tam]
If you are going to try to bluster through - I call.
It is because Genesis was created by kludging together Greek and Assyrian creation myths, and they have multiple Gods.
The proto-Jewish did a poor job editing the final product.
My evidence is the two stories (which I am not going to read for you), what i your evidence?
If you are going to try to bluster through - I call.
It is because Genesis was created by kludging together Greek and Assyrian creation myths, and they have multiple Gods.
The proto-Jewish did a poor job editing the final product.
My evidence is the two stories (which I am not going to read for you), what i your evidence?
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
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tam
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Post #82
[Replying to post 79 by Willum]
Because those children were already known to God. Why would He punish them - including those He loves - by denying them their existence?
(Adam and Eve were loved as well, for that matter.)
We (hopefully) don't just let our children die (and so also their children, and their children, and their children, etc, etc) and start over when they have disappoint us and caused harm. We teach them, let them learn (either from us and/or from the consequences of their actions), guide them, let them grow, let them mature, let them learn wisdom (hopefully).
Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Suppose God just repaired Adam's mistake in the garden? Allowed them both to perish of natural causes, without children. Then started over.
Because those children were already known to God. Why would He punish them - including those He loves - by denying them their existence?
(Adam and Eve were loved as well, for that matter.)
We (hopefully) don't just let our children die (and so also their children, and their children, and their children, etc, etc) and start over when they have disappoint us and caused harm. We teach them, let them learn (either from us and/or from the consequences of their actions), guide them, let them grow, let them mature, let them learn wisdom (hopefully).
Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
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Willum
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Post #83
[Replying to post 82 by tam]
That must be one of the most incomprehensible answers ever posted on the internet.
At least as it stands - explain please.
For example, he could change that reality and improve the universe, without any moral conundrums.
That must be one of the most incomprehensible answers ever posted on the internet.
At least as it stands - explain please.
For example, he could change that reality and improve the universe, without any moral conundrums.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
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tam
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Post #84
I'm not entirely sure what you don't understand, but:Willum wrote: [Replying to post 82 by tam]
That must be one of the most incomprehensible answers ever posted on the internet.
At least as it stands - explain please.
If Adam and Eve perish (without having any children) then what of their children (that they would have had)? Who learned through their suffering what they might not have learned otherwise (such as Adam)? What of those who would have been (and have been) faithful and loyal to JAH and to His Son, despite adversity? Despite the accusation that has been made against us (mankind), that we will 'curse God and die' in order to save our own skin?
Now how do you know this, Willum?For example, he could change that reality and improve the universe, without any moral conundrums.
People make statements like this all the time ... "oh, God could have just done this or that"... "if I were God, I would have done it like this or that, its so simple...".
God DID what needed to be done - in His wisdom and knowledge with regard to EVERYTHING - to accomplish His goal.
We (mankind) don't even know everything about how the physical world works; how much less about how the spiritual world works?!
So how do you know that there would not have been any 'moral conundrums' to God leaving Adam and Eve to die; not permitting Adam and Eve to have any children?
(And what kind of a message is that for a Father to send to His children? Would that not leave them in fear that they will simply be abandoned - they and their children - if they make a mess of things? We don't do that to OUR OWN children, Willum. Well, some probably do, sadly. But for the most part, hopefully, we do not.)
Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
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Willum
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Post #85
[Replying to post 84 by tam]
For pete's sake Tam, in the face of an all powerful god, he could have made us all good in an easier possible reality.
Your argument is spurious.
We could all be born all over again, all without sin and suffering, in an easier world, if the premises of your religion were true.
Unless you god is an all-powerful imbecile.
Is that what you are saying, God is all powerful, but a cosmic idiot?
I think I'll just chalk that one down to a logical inconsistency that disproves the religion out-of-hand.
For pete's sake Tam, in the face of an all powerful god, he could have made us all good in an easier possible reality.
Your argument is spurious.
We could all be born all over again, all without sin and suffering, in an easier world, if the premises of your religion were true.
Unless you god is an all-powerful imbecile.
Is that what you are saying, God is all powerful, but a cosmic idiot?
I think I'll just chalk that one down to a logical inconsistency that disproves the religion out-of-hand.
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Revelations won
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Post #86
Dear Willum,
Your answers to Tam come across as rather harsh.
It is obvious to me and perhaps others that you are lacking a clear and full understanding of the plans and designs of an all wise creator.
I might ask: If you were in the Creator,s position, what plan would you propose?
Would you place a formidable adversary on your earth to tempt and try the inhabitants thereof?
Or would you eliminate this adversary to create a more perfect world?
What other things would you implement in your plan???
You might refer to my post of January 28,2018 on the topic "God creates evil?", to gain a different understanding.
Regards,
Revelations won
Your answers to Tam come across as rather harsh.
It is obvious to me and perhaps others that you are lacking a clear and full understanding of the plans and designs of an all wise creator.
I might ask: If you were in the Creator,s position, what plan would you propose?
Would you place a formidable adversary on your earth to tempt and try the inhabitants thereof?
Or would you eliminate this adversary to create a more perfect world?
What other things would you implement in your plan???
You might refer to my post of January 28,2018 on the topic "God creates evil?", to gain a different understanding.
Regards,
Revelations won
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Willum
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Post #87
[Replying to post 86 by Revelations won]
Well, thank you for asking, however, to understand my opinion, you'd have to grasp my ant mound in Manitoba analogy.
If you are willing to do so, please read on:
Imagine that there are two ant mounds in Manitoba, and they both worship you as their absolute God.
One has been worshiping you the same way since, at least according to their claims, for 10,000 years, and therefore claim they are your chosen ants, and you will save them and bring them into heaven with you.
The others claim you sent them your only begotten son, made ant (from the virgin ant-queen), to save them and all ants from their sins, and they are therefore your chosen ants.
They have all sorts of wars proving one or the other are your chosen ants.
So the question for you is:
Which one of them is your chosen ants?
Which ones will you create an ant-farm for, and pipe their souls to, where they can live-forever and ever with their loved ones?
Please answer honestly.
Respectfully yours,
Well, thank you for asking, however, to understand my opinion, you'd have to grasp my ant mound in Manitoba analogy.
If you are willing to do so, please read on:
Imagine that there are two ant mounds in Manitoba, and they both worship you as their absolute God.
One has been worshiping you the same way since, at least according to their claims, for 10,000 years, and therefore claim they are your chosen ants, and you will save them and bring them into heaven with you.
The others claim you sent them your only begotten son, made ant (from the virgin ant-queen), to save them and all ants from their sins, and they are therefore your chosen ants.
They have all sorts of wars proving one or the other are your chosen ants.
So the question for you is:
Which one of them is your chosen ants?
Which ones will you create an ant-farm for, and pipe their souls to, where they can live-forever and ever with their loved ones?
Please answer honestly.
Respectfully yours,
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Post #88
[Replying to post 87 by Willum]
That's an interesting little puzzle there Willum.
Now if you were the GOD of these ants, what would you do?
That's an interesting little puzzle there Willum.
Now if you were the GOD of these ants, what would you do?
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Genesis has more than one God?
Post #90[Replying to post 1 by Confused]
Let "us" make man
The above expression "us" in English usually means the speaker is refering to himself plus someone else; in this case Almighty God (YHWH) would be be speaking to someone else. Who was He speaking to? The bible indicates God created many millions (perhaps billions) of spirit creatures prior to His creation of the universe, the first and most senior creation being his son, identified as "The Word" (who later came to earth as the human, Jesus Christ). So logically, the "us" in the expression "Let us make man" refers to the creation of humans being a joint endeavor between Almighty God and Jesus (The Word) His first created spirit being.
To answer your questions
Further reading : Who is Jesus Christ?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005681
RELATED POSTS
Let "us" make man
The above expression "us" in English usually means the speaker is refering to himself plus someone else; in this case Almighty God (YHWH) would be be speaking to someone else. Who was He speaking to? The bible indicates God created many millions (perhaps billions) of spirit creatures prior to His creation of the universe, the first and most senior creation being his son, identified as "The Word" (who later came to earth as the human, Jesus Christ). So logically, the "us" in the expression "Let us make man" refers to the creation of humans being a joint endeavor between Almighty God and Jesus (The Word) His first created spirit being.
*They are more usually refered to as "spirits" or "angels" depending on what role they play. For more details see Tigger2s post :God, god and gods in scriptureObviously if this holds true, the creation cannot be equal to the CREATOR. Only the Almighty (YHWH) is presented in scripture as the "uncaused cause", an uncreated being, without a beginning. So Jesus (The Word) would not be equal to his "Father", the Uncreated Almighty God. Still, these lesser (spirits) beings are called "gods" in scripture since the world simply means in Hebrew "powerful one"*.
So in the bible is there more than one "god"? Yes.
Are all gods equal ? No.
Can all these "gods" be considered Almighty? No
Should believers worship any of these (lesser) gods? Absolutely not!
To answer your questions
1) Who is he speaking to? Almighty God was speaking to "Jesus" in his (Jesus') pre-human existence.
2) Why does God refer to Adam and Eve becoming one of US? In the plural sense. Because the creation of man was a joint endeavor between Himself (Almighty God/YHWH) and Jesus (The Word).
Further reading : Who is Jesus Christ?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005681
RELATED POSTS
Jesus, God's "Masterworker" in Creation?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 13#p864013
How do Jehovah's Witnesses explain ISAIAH 44:24?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 01#p864001
Why reject perverted pagan gods ?
viewtopic.php?p=991212#p991212
Are there really two different creation accounts in the bible book of Genesis?
viewtopic.php?p=941688#p941688
Let "us" make man: How many gods made Adam?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 69#p903869
Did Adam die the "day" he was condemned?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 29#p886229
Does the bible say God created plants BEFORE he created the sun/light?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 17#p836617
To learn more please go to other posts related to...
BIBLICAL AUTHORSHIP & TRANSMISSION and ...THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:14 pm, edited 12 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
