Faith isn't a bad thing.

[McCulloch]

Faith isn't a bad thing.

Is faith a good thing or a bad thing?

What is faith anyway? I think that we are discussing definition (2) below.

faith [feyth]
–noun

1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

Dictionary.com. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith (accessed: January 09, 2007).

[upallnite]

One example. I went bungee cord jumping some years ago. I was hoisted up in a cage several stories high. Attached to me was one end of a bungee cord. While the other end was attached to the cage. I paid good money for the opportunity to jump off of that cage platform. I didn't take any steps to prove to myself that the cord was not too long and that it was strong enough for me. I needed faith that the bungee cord would hold me and that it was not too long. There could've been two possible consequences of my acting in faith. Either I'd get the bad result of smashing myself on the concrete floor below or the good result of a rush of excitement of having survived jumping off that platform.

Wouldn't that be careless?

When I am in a race I double check everything. I also do my own checks. Not doing so has caused the death of many drivers.

[otseng]

Wouldn't that be careless?

No, because I paid money to do it. I had faith in the operator that he checked everything. Plus, I doubt I'd be allowed to check it.

Now, if I bought a bungee cord myself and constructed a platform, it would be careless of me if I did not double, triple check everything.

Or if I ride a roller coaster, would it be careless of me if I didn't check the tracks? Wouldn't I still need faith to believe that it is safe to ride?

[Cogitoergosum]

Ok faith can be a powerful motivator. For good or bad. However I think faith is an anaesthetic.

Even though i agree with that but i must say that mcculloch is right and faith is mainly bad.
Unreasonable, or evil if u will, believers and non believers will commit crimes.
Reasonnable or good believers and non believers do good deeds.
Only faith, makes reasonable people commit crimes thinking this is the will of god.

I do not know of any society that has commited crimes or atrocities because it was too cautious and questioned all of its core beliefs. Do u?

[upallnite]

Or if I ride a roller coaster, would it be careless of me if I didn't check the tracks? Wouldn't I still need faith to believe that it is safe to ride?

The risk is not the same. It would be much more like going on the first test run. I would also make sure the other end of the cord is tied to something solid and check the Jump Instructor's(?) history. I have walked thru a battlefield and what you did sounds risky.

[otseng]

Only faith, makes reasonable people commit crimes thinking this is the will of god.

How are you defining faith here?
What crimes are you referring to?

The risk is not the same. It would be much more like going on the first test run. I would also make sure the other end of the cord is tied to something solid and check the Jump Instructor's(?) history. I have walked thru a battlefield and what you did sounds risky.

Whether there is little risk or great risk, I would think that anytime risk is involved, faith would be present. If there was no risk, then that would mean we are certain of the outcome. So, only when there is zero risk would there would be no faith.

[Furrowed Brow]

Hi Otseng

So, only when there is zero risk would there would be no faith.

Is there not a difference in kind rather than degree when it comes to religious faith. You put your trust in the guys who constructed the bungee jump. Maybe you kept an eye out for things that would go against that trust like a frayed rope. But the trust is that if the guys have done their job properly there is nothing to worry about.

Religion on the other hand, especially those with claims to supernatural phenomena i.e. the resurrection, are making a bungee jump without being tethered by the rope of reason. In fact is not the leap of faith in the face of reason. It is a leap of faith after all - and an intellectual risk.

If the bungee guys say hey this is a special bungee jump. You don't need a rope for this one. Go ahead jump. It will be fine. That requires an all together different kind of faith does it not. A faith that can suppose that for a moment gravity can and will stop working. And if gravity can be overcome so can death.

[otseng]

Religion on the other hand, especially those with claims to supernatural phenomena i.e. the resurrection, are making a bungee jump without being tethered by the rope of reason.

I do not share the opinion that it is not tethered by the rope of reason. If there were absolutely no reasonable evidence to believe in the validity of Christianity, then I could see your point. But, I believe there exists reasonable arguments for the truth of Christianity and that the bungee cord is attached to some solid evidence.

[The One]

Faith is quite logical actually, it can show the differences good and evil. Imagine a world without religion. This world would be full of chaos and violence; we would become the very thing God does not want us to be animals.

[Confused]

Ok faith can be a powerful motivator. For good or bad. However I think faith is an anaesthetic.

Even though i agree with that but i must say that mcculloch is right and faith is mainly bad.
Unreasonable, or evil if u will, believers and non believers will commit crimes.
Reasonnable or good believers and non believers do good deeds.
Only faith, makes reasonable people commit crimes thinking this is the will of god.

I do not know of any society that has commited crimes or atrocities because it was too cautious and questioned all of its core beliefs. Do u?

I have to disagree. You are only referring to religious faith. I fail to see how you can logically argue that faith in general is a bad thing. Only faith mkes reasonable people commit crimes? No. People commit crimes for many reasons, and I can't think of a single serial killer who used faith as a platform for their defense. Psychopaths can think it is because of Gods will, serial killers do if for the thrill of it, should I go on?

How can you compare the faith of a society to that of an individual?

Religion requires faith, but faith doesn't require religion. Open your eyes!!!!!

[Confused]

Faith is quite logical actually, it can show the differences good and evil. Imagine a world without religion. This world would be full of chaos and violence; we would become the very thing God does not want us to be animals.

Wrong, faith of any kind is completely illogical. However, we use it every day in life. Ex:
Cog: In any Code Blue, we attempt to find the underlying cause during the code in the hopes of reversing it to get a HR back. Now ACLS algorithm changes every freakin year. Now instead of stacked shocks for V-tach, you give one shock then rather than the average 60 bpm of compression, we now do 90-100. The most recent saying is "push hard and push fast". Not a single bit of ACLS has actually been proven to be more effective than any other treatment. But we still run the code because we have faith that we can get this pt back, though usually we don't. We hold faith in the treatment without any real hard evidence to prove it works.

Yes faith can be abused, but because some abuse it doesn't make it a bad thing.