What Church traditions are not Biblical?

[otseng]

This topic was inspired by Traditions of men. Originally I was going to start this thread in the HH room, but perhaps some non-Christians would have some good insight to share also. Then I was going to put it into the Random Ramblings, but I can see this topic headed towards areas of debate. So, I'm putting this here.

I pointed out one example in the other thread of a tradition that is not Biblical, the tradition of the "altar call". Nowhere in the Bible does it mention a preacher asking a congregation to close their eyes, hold up their hands for prayer, and then walk forward to the altar to get prayed over.

So, the questions for debate are:
What Church traditions are not Biblical?
Which of these should the Church stop doing? Why?
How should it be decided for a church to continue a tradition, even if it is not Biblical?

[nikolayevich]

Can we assume that we're not listing any Old Testament traditions (like above) - since the teachings of Jesus Christ nullified them all?

??? Really??? I'd like to hear the passage that says that the Old Testament traditions are nullified.

I'm curious about this subject as well.

Fair enough. Should be some good conversation.

[bernee51]

Can we assume that we're not listing any Old Testament traditions (like above) - since the teachings of Jesus Christ nullified them all?

I'm curious about this subject as well.

OK - how about

Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32) - Most churches allow it

Don't plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34) - most churches do

Don't save money. (Matthew 6:19-20) - ditto

Don't become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25) - say no more

Don't work to obtain food. (John 6:27) - manna from heaven - I think not

[otseng]

Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32) - Most churches allow it

Don't plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34) - most churches do

Don't save money. (Matthew 6:19-20) - ditto

Don't become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25) - say no more

Don't work to obtain food. (John 6:27) - manna from heaven - I think not

That's a pretty good list (and scripture references too!). Though I wouldn't interpret John 6:27 to mean don't work to obtain food. Rather we should strive for things that are eternal.

Jhn 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Here's another one to think about. The Sabbath is supposed to be holy and a day of rest. But, the Sabbath is on Saturday, not Sunday. Yet, practically all churches take Sunday as the holy day.

Exd 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

[Arch]

Can we assume that we're not listing any Old Testament traditions (like above) - since the teachings of Jesus Christ nullified them all?

It's amazing how things always come full circle, because otseng is about to take it back to the Old Testament that seventil would like to so easily dismiss (which would be in his favor of course)

Here's another one to think about. The Sabbath is supposed to be holy and a day of rest. But, the Sabbath is on Saturday, not Sunday. Yet, practically all churches take Sunday as the holy day.

Exd 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

If the Jesus did away with all the laws of the Old Testament then you don't have to keep the sabbath.

Nor do you have to tithe.

Nor should gays be barred from the church, because homosexuality is a sin of the old testament along with all the others like not eating pork, no shell fish, not sleeping with your children, and about 610 more which christians ignore.

Remember you can't pick and choose which laws to keep in fact jesus himself said he didn't come to destroy the law.

Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus also said he would claim you

Luke 13
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

INIQUITY-- ajnomiva-
Definition
the condition of without law
1. because ignorant of it
2. because of violating it
contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

[otseng]

Let's move all discussions on whether Christians should follow the Old Testament to another thread. (I'd create it myself, but I have enough tokens )

[Bill55AZ]

I don't think the 10 commandments were nullified by Christ. He gave 2 new commandments upon which hang all the others. If you can follow those 2 laws, the others are a given.
The other 'laws' , some of which were listed, were likely invented by the Jewish leaders. And in the NT, the words of followers do not have the same impact as the words of Christ. They spent a lot of time with him, and never fully understood his mission or his message.

[aquinas]

hi all

as coming from Catholic point of view, we recognize that the Bible is not the sole rule of everything, in fact, it is repudiated in Scripture. The true "rule of faith"—as expressed in the Bible itself—is Scripture plus apostolic tradition, as manifested in the living teaching authority of the Catholic Church, to which were entrusted the oral teachings of Jesus and the apostles, along with the authority to interpret Scripture correctly. Many biblical verses does support these.... check this link http://www.catholic.com/library/Scriptu ... dition.asp.... and you will be surprised what the Bible has to say....

aquinas

[proverbial student]

Truly, should we not consider that the OT is null and void but that the prophecies were fulfilled by Jesus Christ. As to the rules, I believe He obeyed the rules unless it was against His teachings. For instance the healings on the Sabbath, when crossed by the teachers of the Temple, he merely countered with the story of the sheep that needed rescue on the Sabbath.

As to ordained clergy, I am Catholic and we follow Apostolic succession. When Jesus Christ gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter on which He would build what He would call His church, was the first ordination of a clergyman. Protestantism would be difficult here because they broke away with the Reformation, from what I understand. Please correct me if I am incorrect.

Matthew 19:

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


The Scripture that truly has issue with the original question is this one:

Matthew 16
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

(I use a Catholic Bible, but for purposes of debate I have used the KJV here)

I have always taken this to be interpreted that whatever is decided by Peter and his successors is therefore decided in Heaven. However, this places a tremendous burden on the clergy for it seems if they took advantage of their position, they will have God to answer to. I may be wrong, but would definitely like some feedback on this one.

[unprofitable servant]

Easter is not biblical but a corrupted translation. Christmas is not biblical. Tithing is not praticed in the true biblical way. Keeping members for generation after generation. Keeping and hanging crosses around ones neck or any other place i.e in homes churches etc. building funds. Baptising everyone who say they believe. The having of statutes and other images of angels is not biblical. There are a host of others.

[unprofitable servant]

Easter is not biblical but a corrupted translation. Christmas is not biblical. Tithing is not praticed in the true biblical way. Keeping members for generation after generation. Keeping and hanging crosses around ones neck or any other place i.e in homes churches etc. building funds. Baptising everyone who say they believe. The having of statutes and other images of angels is not biblical. There are a host of others.