Old Earth or New Earth?

[hiramabbi2]

Based upon contextual analysis of the Scripture supported by scientific findings (carbon dating), this Earth is approximately 10-15 Billion years of age. And I happen to agree.

What's your take on this?

[ST88]

Based upon contextual analysis of the Scripture supported by scientific findings (carbon dating), this Earth is approximately 10-15 Billion years of age. And I happen to agree.

What's your take on this?

Just to clarify, current scientific evidence points to an age of about 4.5 billion years. There are numerous means to determine this age, including radiometric dating with lead, uranium, and argon. Carbon dating is reserved for organic matter.

The 10-15 billion figure is the generally accepted age of the universe.

REFs:
http://id-archserve.ucsb.edu/Anth3/Cour ... ating.html
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html
and for those of like mind:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html

[The Hungry Atheist]

Yep, what ST88 said.

hiramabbi, any chance you could elaborate slightly on "contextual analysis of the Scripture"? Which parts of which scripture imply this particular age of the Earth?

[hiramabbi2]

Our Heaven or Universe was made on the 3rd Day (Gen 2:4-5). The Big Bang happened on the 3rd Day, the same Day Jesus made our Heaven or Kosmos, and also the 3rd Heaven.

Albert Einstein, when asked his worse mistake, said that it was assuming that there was another force, besides Gravity, which could explain the Galaxies movements. Today, Scientists are dumbfounded by the latest Hubble discoveries that Galaxies are increasing in speed. These scientists are trying to say that Einstein was wrong about his worse mistake. They claim that there must be some Undetected, Undiscovered, Mysterious force which is causing the Galaxies to move apart at increasing Speed.

The answer is that the 1st World was formed in the midst of the Waters, and our present World is formed in the midst of the Dust. The Galaxies are being drawn toward the larger mass of Dust which surrounds our World, and are increasing in speed as they approach the Firmament which surrounds our World.

At the end of this present 6th Day of God, the Stars will fall from the Sky and brimstone, dust and fire, will fall from Heaven. Everyone will then know that the assumptions of mortal men, who believe that some unseen, unknown, undiscovered force, is propelling these Galaxies apart is nothing short of biblical ignorance. Scientists could avoid making such assumptions if they would read Scripture.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with great noise, and the element shall melt with fervent heat, and the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up," 2Peter 3:10

[ENIGMA]

The answer is that the 1st World was formed in the midst of the Waters, and our present World is formed in the midst of the Dust. The Galaxies are being drawn toward the larger mass of Dust which surrounds our World, and are increasing in speed as they approach the Firmament which surrounds our World.

So, out of curiousity, do you have any idea which part of the NASA space shuttles keeps them from smacking into said firmament?

[hiramabbi2]

The answer is that the 1st World was formed in the midst of the Waters, and our present World is formed in the midst of the Dust. The Galaxies are being drawn toward the larger mass of Dust which surrounds our World, and are increasing in speed as they approach the Firmament which surrounds our World.

So, out of curiousity, do you have any idea which part of the NASA space shuttles keeps them from smacking into said firmament?

Could someone please tell me if I have to respond to this fallacies of argument? I don't believe I have to, do I?

[ST88]

The answer is that the 1st World was formed in the midst of the Waters, and our present World is formed in the midst of the Dust. The Galaxies are being drawn toward the larger mass of Dust which surrounds our World, and are increasing in speed as they approach the Firmament which surrounds our World.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "1st World." Could you elaborate?

You still have not explained why the galaxies are increasing in speed, only that they are moving.

Also, if the galaxies are moving away from each other and us, how could they be approaching our own firmament?

At the end of this present 6th Day of God, the Stars will fall from the Sky and brimstone, dust and fire, will fall from Heaven. Everyone will then know that the assumptions of mortal men, who believe that some unseen, unknown, undiscovered force, is propelling these Galaxies apart is nothing short of biblical ignorance. Scientists could avoid making such assumptions if they would read Scripture.

If I read this correctly, your contention here is that the ignorance of the unbelievers is the force that propels galaxies away from one another. Is that correct? Forgive me if this is metaphorical language, it's difficult to tell which is which.

[ST88]

I'll address the two of you at the same time to try and re-direct this thread...

So, out of curiousity, do you have any idea which part of the NASA space shuttles keeps them from smacking into said firmament?

I don't think this question, the way it is worded, is helpful for debate. Firstly, no one here needs to have the required knowledge of Space Shuttle anti-firmament apparati that would answer the question. Secondly, it's OK in my book to be facetious, but at least make a valid point while doing so. Thirdly, limiting your question to Space Shuttles indicates a lack of imagination.

Could someone please tell me if I have to respond to this fallacies of argument? I don't believe I have to, do I?

You don't have to respond to anything if you don't want to. But if you believe there are fallacies in someone's argument, you should point out how they are fallacious.

[ENIGMA]

So, out of curiousity, do you have any idea which part of the NASA space shuttles keeps them from smacking into said firmament?

I don't think this question, the way it is worded, is helpful for debate. Firstly, no one here needs to have the required knowledge of Space Shuttle anti-firmament apparati that would answer the question. Secondly, it's OK in my book to be facetious, but at least make a valid point while doing so.

Having NASA currently be able to send shuttles up into space rather defeats the notion of such a firmament does it not?

Consider it the functional equivalent of asking "Well where does the bottom turtle stand on?" when shown a model of the Earth resting on a bunch of turtles (Unlike Discworld, with the one turtle that swims through space very slowly of course ) or "So, why do ships disappear over the horizon?" when being shown a model of the Earth being flat.

It could be answered, but it's unlikely to recieve a satisfactory one.

Thirdly, limiting your question to Space Shuttles indicates a lack of imagination.

Yes, I'm sorry about forgetting the large Orc catapults and their brave flyers needing some firmament protection. Rather racially insensitive of me I think...

[ST88]

Having NASA currently be able to send shuttles up into space rather defeats the notion of such a firmament does it not?

The universe that hiramabbi2 describes does not indicate that there is a sufficient definition of Firmament for me to make any generalizations about it, so I would like to hear what that definition is before making rhetorical attacks on it.