Do we lose free will in Heaven?

[Metatron]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

[twobitsmedia]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will.

I am not so sure I agree with this premise. It doesn't make sense to me. Evil happens to emphasize mans free will?

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

I was trying to find some place that said there would be no sin in heaven. Is there a reference for that? I see where it says "fomer things are pased away," and the "fearful, unbelieivng, abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars" will not be there. or "anything that defileth or worketh abomination." hence, I believe the opportunity will be there, so free will will still exist. God never took away "Satans" free will as an archangel and he was in heaven.

[katiej49]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

we will WILLINGLY worship Him forever....it will be a place of perfect peace and joy and we will have full knowledge of Him.......we wont want to sin.......we will be perfect and perfectly worship.....

[Metatron]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will.

I am not so sure I agree with this premise. It doesn't make sense to me. Evil happens to emphasize mans free will?

The argument that I've always been given on this forum is that man must have the option to choose evil otherwise free will is negated. If God prevents all evil from happening, man is incapable of moral choices and his will is thwarted.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

I was trying to find some place that said there would be no sin in heaven. Is there a reference for that? I see where it says "fomer things are pased away," and the "fearful, unbelieivng, abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars" will not be there. or "anything that defileth or worketh abomination." hence, I believe the opportunity will be there, so free will will still exist. God never took away "Satans" free will as an archangel and he was in heaven.

Interesting. I've seen numerous references to the lack of sin in Heaven in posts on this forum and elsewhere but do not know if it is explicitly mentioned as such by a Bible passage. Have to do some poking around and see if I can come up with something.

In the meantime, if you are correct, this brings up some other interesting speculation. I don't think that when Christians envision Heaven that they imagine that people would continue to sin even after what is supposed to be final judgement. In truth, since all men are sinners, there is no reason to think they wouldn't go right on sinning in Heaven. The range of sins might contract considerably since they would presumably no longer have material needs, etc. but as the aforementioned example of Satan shows, sins like pride would still be possible. I wonder if there would be any penalty for sinning in Heaven?

[Metatron]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

we will WILLINGLY worship Him forever....it will be a place of perfect peace and joy and we will have full knowledge of Him.......we wont want to sin.......we will be perfect and perfectly worship.....

Sure you will not want to sin, but then again I assume that you don't want to sin NOW. If free will exists, the option to sin is always there and given that all who go to Heaven have sinned in the past there's no real reason to think they will all stop when they get there. The only way to eliminate all sin is to eliminate free will.

[twobitsmedia]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will.

I am not so sure I agree with this premise. It doesn't make sense to me. Evil happens to emphasize mans free will?

The argument that I've always been given on this forum is that man must have the option to choose evil otherwise free will is negated. If God prevents all evil from happening, man is incapable of moral choices and his will is thwarted.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

I was trying to find some place that said there would be no sin in heaven. Is there a reference for that? I see where it says "fomer things are pased away," and the "fearful, unbelieivng, abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars" will not be there. or "anything that defileth or worketh abomination." hence, I believe the opportunity will be there, so free will will still exist. God never took away "Satans" free will as an archangel and he was in heaven.

Interesting. I've seen numerous references to the lack of sin in Heaven in posts on this forum and elsewhere but do not know if it is explicitly mentioned as such by a Bible passage. Have to do some poking around and see if I can come up with something.

In the meantime, if you are correct, this brings up some other interesting speculation. I don't think that when Christians envision Heaven that they imagine that people would continue to sin even after what is supposed to be final judgement. In truth, since all men are sinners, there is no reason to think they wouldn't go right on sinning in Heaven. The range of sins might contract considerably since they would presumably no longer have material needs, etc. but as the aforementioned example of Satan shows, sins like pride would still be possible. I wonder if there would be any penalty for sinning in Heaven?

I tend to think a lot of Christians like to pass on information they may have learned from someone else or "tradition," but I have learned to always check it out myself. However, I am certainly not infallible and if there is something about "sin" not being in heaven, I don't know about it. I could see how the conclusion could possibly be reached. As a small sidenote on the subject of 'traditional" stories, I was told for years that the fruit Eve ate in the garden was an apple, but the Bible does not say what kind of fruit it was. Also, everyone says there were three wisemen that visited baby Jesus in Jerusalem. No where does it specify there were three or just three. As far as a penalty, I guess satan got kicked out. But unless God is going to create another world, I don't know where they would get kicked to.

[wheels5894]

You know, this seems to be one of those topics in which no one has any actual knowledge, especially as interviews with the late departed are fraught with difficulty. Yet, I think we might through light on this.

Now I suspect many people, including me, have though that Heaven was just another place, a bit shiny and noisy but essentially another place to go. We read about saints chasing down their crowns on the glassy sea and angels permanently singing. What if, oddly, another religion already had a answer?

Buddhism teaches that the ultimate goal is to die and merge with One (God presumably). This would make perfect sense of free will on earth and sinlessness in Heaven .

Oh, and while we are in this realm, could anyone tell where I can find a text describing the fall of the devil? Satan could be the same person, though in the beginning of the Book of Job, Satan the name means something along the lines of the questioner, a role he has clearly perfected.Now Job is a fictional account as can be evidenced by earlier versions in other nont Jewish groups in the area and it is very so I am not sure we can use the term Satan to mean the Devil whose job is little diffrent.

[Greatest I Am]

You know, this seems to be one of those topics in which no one has any actual knowledge, especially as interviews with the late departed are fraught with difficulty. Yet, I think we might through light on this.

Now I suspect many people, including me, have though that Heaven was just another place, a bit shiny and noisy but essentially another place to go. We read about saints chasing down their crowns on the glassy sea and angels permanently singing. What if, oddly, another religion already had a answer?

Buddhism teaches that the ultimate goal is to die and merge with One (God presumably). This would make perfect sense of free will on earth and sinlessness in Heaven .

Oh, and while we are in this realm, could anyone tell where I can find a text describing the fall of the devil? Satan could be the same person, though in the beginning of the Book of Job, Satan the name means something along the lines of the questioner, a role he has clearly perfected.Now Job is a fictional account as can be evidenced by earlier versions in other nont Jewish groups in the area and it is very so I am not sure we can use the term Satan to mean the Devil whose job is little diffrent.

GIA wrote
Heaven is a place of thought. It is non corporeal. In that place your thoughts are open to all as the thoughts of all others are open to you, all the way to God.
If by the exercise of free will one is talking about thinking whatever way you want then I would say yes, free will is in heaven.
If you are talking about being able to do what "Satan" did then I do not think so.
It would be a weak God indeed who could not control His home.

Regards
DL

[wheels5894]

It would be a weak God indeed who could not control His home.

Interesting comment. So how did the devil arise, via a weak God or what?

[Greatest I Am]

It would be a weak God indeed who could not control His home.

Interesting comment. So how did the devil arise, via a weak God or what?

I view devil and demons, talking snakes ets. as representations of other things. IE. Satan, represents evil thoughts, Angels are good ides and notions etc.

God and evil were given to us to learn the difference between the two.

Our directions from God were to reproduce and learn.
We are doing both well and should be pleasing to God.

I have always Given God Perfection as part of His attributes. This is not reflected back by most.
They prefer to see their God as a bungler. Unable to start us off the right way.
I would suggest that God does not bungle. Eve took the right road for Her children. Us.
Otherwise God would end a faulty attempt. He would start over again.
Few think this way.
They are wrong and turn God into an entity who fail at almost everything.
How they can pray to a failed God, is strange.

Regards
DL