Do we lose free will in Heaven?

[Metatron]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

[Metatron]

Science tells us that light moves in quanta or packets of particles. How this relates to Genesis is not clear but I lay it out for comment.

Science also tells us that light propagates as a wave. Not sure what that has to do with Genesis either but, what the heck, I'll lay that one out for comment also!

[Greatest I Am]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

We have free will in Heaven.

Heaven is like a ship on the water.
We are all in it in Heaven.
The option is always there to jump into the water but how many people jump of ships? In Heaven none.

Regards
DL

[Metatron]

We have free will in Heaven.

Heaven is like a ship on the water.
We are all in it in Heaven.
The option is always there to jump into the water but how many people jump of ships? In Heaven none.

Regards
DL

So if we are all going to Heaven and will have free will there just as we do here, what is God waiting for? What has to happen for all to go to heaven?

[Greatest I Am]

We have free will in Heaven.

Heaven is like a ship on the water.
We are all in it in Heaven.
The option is always there to jump into the water but how many people jump of ships? In Heaven none.

Regards
DL

So if we are all going to Heaven and will have free will there just as we do here, what is God waiting for? What has to happen for all to go to heaven?

Not 100% sure but end time conditions need to be present.
Or the process set up by God is to run till this earth passes away naturally.
It is Perfect and could easily do this.

I am open though for others to add to these explanations.

Regards
DL

[Metatron]

We have free will in Heaven.

Heaven is like a ship on the water.
We are all in it in Heaven.
The option is always there to jump into the water but how many people jump of ships? In Heaven none.

Regards
DL

So if we are all going to Heaven and will have free will there just as we do here, what is God waiting for? What has to happen for all to go to heaven?

Not 100% sure but end time conditions need to be present.
Or the process set up by God is to run till this earth passes away naturally.
It is Perfect and could easily do this.

I am open though for others to add to these explanations.

Regards
DL

Since you do not appear to be guided by the Bible and therefore I'm assuming do not follow Revelations, what conditions of end times are you referring to?

As for the earth passing away naturally, you mean like when the sun becomes a red giant in a billion or so years when it has exhausted most of it's fuel, swallowing the Earth in the process? Or specifically the death of man in some catastrophic event along the lines of the Cretacious/Tertiary or Permian/Triassic extinctions?

[Greatest I Am]

We have free will in Heaven.

Heaven is like a ship on the water.
We are all in it in Heaven.
The option is always there to jump into the water but how many people jump of ships? In Heaven none.

Regards
DL

So if we are all going to Heaven and will have free will there just as we do here, what is God waiting for? What has to happen for all to go to heaven?

Not 100% sure but end time conditions need to be present.
Or the process set up by God is to run till this earth passes away naturally.
It is Perfect and could easily do this.

I am open though for others to add to these explanations.

Regards
DL

Since you do not appear to be guided by the Bible and therefore I'm assuming do not follow Revelations, what conditions of end times are you referring to?

As for the earth passing away naturally, you mean like when the sun becomes a red giant in a billion or so years when it has exhausted most of it's fuel, swallowing the Earth in the process? Or specifically the death of man in some catastrophic event along the lines of the Cretacious/Tertiary or Permian/Triassic extinctions?

I think a world Government and an organized world Church are required.
As to the world, you have it about right, some natural disaster.

Do not fear death though whenever it comes. The afterlife is rather nice.
There is a right of passage that is unpleasant but the reward is well worth it.


Regards
DL

[Metatron]

We have free will in Heaven.

Heaven is like a ship on the water.
We are all in it in Heaven.
The option is always there to jump into the water but how many people jump of ships? In Heaven none.

Regards
DL

So if we are all going to Heaven and will have free will there just as we do here, what is God waiting for? What has to happen for all to go to heaven?

Not 100% sure but end time conditions need to be present.
Or the process set up by God is to run till this earth passes away naturally.
It is Perfect and could easily do this.

I am open though for others to add to these explanations.

Regards
DL

Since you do not appear to be guided by the Bible and therefore I'm assuming do not follow Revelations, what conditions of end times are you referring to?

As for the earth passing away naturally, you mean like when the sun becomes a red giant in a billion or so years when it has exhausted most of it's fuel, swallowing the Earth in the process? Or specifically the death of man in some catastrophic event along the lines of the Cretacious/Tertiary or Permian/Triassic extinctions?

I think a world Government and an organized world Church are required.
As to the world, you have it about right, some natural disaster.

Do not fear death though whenever it comes. The afterlife is rather nice.
There is a right of passage that is unpleasant but the reward is well worth it.


Regards
DL

Looks like we have a long time to wait then for the end times then. I don't think we are getting a world government or a universal church anytime soon if ever. I certainly hope we have a long time to wait for a global extinction event.

[Greatest I Am]

[quote="Metatron"][quote="Greatest I Am"][quote="Metatron"][quote="Greatest I Am"][quote="Metatron"][quote="Greatest I Am"]

As a n asside, it can be argued that we now have a world Government. There is one country that spends more on war than all the others. This means that they control the world.
Or as much of the world that can be controlled.

All we need now is a world Church.

Regards
DL

[Metatron]

As a n asside, it can be argued that we now have a world Government. There is one country that spends more on war than all the others. This means that they control the world.
Or as much of the world that can be controlled.

All we need now is a world Church.

Regards
DL

I hardly think the fact that the U.S. has a huge defense budget means that we rule the world. Far from it in fact. If we ruled the world I don't think that whack jobs like Ahmadinejad in Iran, Chavez in Venezuela, and Kim Jong-il in North Korea would be constantly shooting the bird at as so to speak.

[achilles12604]

Here is another possibility:

We retain free will in heaven. But the experience of heaven is so great that we have no desire to rebel. We continue to use our free will to our advantage, and thereby maintain the peace and love of being with our creator. In short, we would have no reason to sin while in heaven.


Any huge logical issues with this one?

I grant you that sin in this scenario would probably be rare but, unless human nature is utterly changed, it seems unrealistic to think that no one would sin. After all, even the very best of these people sinned while on Earth. Indeed, many of them may have committed terrible crimes but were forgiven. Hard to believe that there would be no backsliding if free will still exists. Naturally, the range of sins possible would be greatly reduced. It's doubtful that murder, for example, would be possible in Heaven.

Still, I should point out that we already have an example of sin in Heaven, namely Satan and his fallen angels who allegedly fell through the sin of pride. If angels can sin, why not man?

I am becoming terrible about not responding in a timely manner. My apologies. This discussion was left off on page 5.

You made a good point here. In heaven, it wouldn't be possible to commit MANY of the sins we can on earth.

Taking just the 10 commandments:

You shall have no other gods before me. - Well if you are in God's house and trying to worship Baal, I would seriously begin to question your intelligence. I don't think this one would happen.


You shall not make for yourself an idol. - Since Heaven would be a spirit place, without physical substance, this one would be impossible.


You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God. - This one I suppose COULD happen. I find it very unlikely however, especially if we are all kept very busy plucking our harps and singing ku-ba-ya.

Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy. - Timeless. This one can't happen.

Honor your father and your mother. - Well Jesus made it clear that in heaven no one will be married, so the relationship between spouses is non-applicable. I would venture to say that since we are all ultimately souls given existence through God, that once in heaven, we are all on equal terms. Mom and Dad simply become two other souls that exist. Therefore this one could not occur.

You shall not murder. - Can't happen

Neither shall you commit adultery. - Can't happen

Neither shall you steal. - Can't happen

Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbour. - I suppose it could happen, but then I would have to wonder what there would be to lie about in heaven, espcially since God knows everything anyway.

Neither shall you covet your neighbour’s wife. - Can't happen




Only three of ten are even theoretically possible given the traditionally accepted view of what heaven is. And those three would require very strange circumstances to occur.

You may have answered the OP here in a way I never thought of. Interesting.