Debate me wrong: The Earth is Flat !
The Bible stated it clearly, and the word of God is True. Some quotes from the Bible:
To whom then will ye liken God? ....It is he that sitteth upon the circle (chuwg) of the earth (Isaiah 40:18-23
"[T]he devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them"
(Matthew 4:1-12)
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (Isaiah 40:22)"
Now, common sense should tell you that the Earth is Flat, else we would FALL OFF. This is not StarWars, there is no "magic" holding us here. God made the world for us, like a flat round disc to protect us.
Try proving me wrong, me and my theist friends shall defend it with LOGIC. Scoffers.
The Earth is Flat!
Moderator: Moderators
Post #31
Eh, no. The round-world theory is relative new, and came to be known more publically around 500 years ago. Before that, the Church and the worlds population generally had the right idea regarding our flat world.I really hope you are a Poe, otherwise I find it amazing how one can refute a fact that was discovered BEFORE THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN especially when the only things needed to discover this was a couple sticks, a ruler and some basic mathematics.
The church had defended the flat earth, as well as that the world is the center of the world for centuries, it was when "science" got power they were force to change, and now, today, children are suppose to take for granted that the world is round.
Please provide EVIDENCE, not your Bible bashing rubbish.
Very funny upallnite, but i will give you some general quotes regarding our flat earth so you have something to go with. But remember, we are followers of logic, and admit if we have some erroneous line in our truth. So dont try to find small things to pick on, like evolutionist usually do, but look at the picture in whole, ok?upallnite wrote:How can it be day time and night time at the same time on a flat earth?
Why is it never night time across the entire planet at the same time?
The moon can't cause darkness or block the sun because the Bible says the moon is a light source. Please explain how this is possible. Keep in mind I am not familiar with the Flat Earth position and will need examples of how your answer works with something I can see. (Like a CD and a flash light)
**This is fun! I can't wait to see the answer. If you give a reasonable and verifiable answer I will "convert" and help you argue for a flat earth**
From Charles K Johnson:
General Physics (Important reading for upallnite) ->Aim: To carefully observe, think freely rediscover forgotten fact and oppose theoretical dogmatic assumptions. To help establish the United States...of the world on this flat earth. Replace the science religion...with SANITY
The International Flat Earth Society is the oldest continuous Society existing on the world today. It began with the Creation of the Creation. First the water...the face of the deep...without form or limits...just Water. Then the Land sitting in and on the Water, the Water then as now being flat and level, as is the very Nature of Water. There are, of course, mountains and valleys on the Land but since most of the World is Water, we say, "The World is Flat". Historical accounts and spoken history tell us the Land part may have been square, all in one mass at one time, then as now, the magnetic north being the Center. Vast cataclysmic events and shaking no doubt broke the land apart, divided the Land to be our present continents or islands as they exist today. One thing we know for sure about this world...the known inhabited world is Flat, Level, a Plain World.
We maintain that what is called 'Science' today and 'scientists' consist of the same old gang of witch doctors, sorcerers, tellers of tales, the 'Priest-Entertainers' for the common people. 'Science' consists of a weird, way-out occult concoction of gibberish theory-theology...unrelated to the real world of facts, technology and inventions, tall buildings and fast cars, airplanes and other Real and Good things in life; technology is not in any way related to the web of idiotic scientific theory. ALL inventors have been anti-science. The Wright brothers said: "Science theory held us up for years. When we threw out all science, started from experiment and experience, then we invented the airplane." By the way, airplanes all fly level on this Plane earth.
The modern Flat Earth Society describes the Earth as being a disk with a circumference of about 78225 miles and a diameter of 24900 miles. The sun and moon are both disks about 32 miles in diameter (though some sources say that the sun and moon are spheres) and are about 3000 miles above the Earth, and the stars about 100 miles above the sun and moon.
The Flat Earth Society also maintains that the Earth is accelerating upward at a rate of 9.8 m/s², thereby simulating gravity. This upward momentum is caused by the "Universal Accelerator", a vague term used by the Society to describe a force that originated at the Big Bang and caused the Earth to speed upwards. Gravity cannot exist on a flat Earth since the disc shape would eventually collapse on itself. However, other planetary bodies such as the moon and the sun have gravitational pulls, causing the gravitational force on an object to decrease as it increases in altitude. This also allows spacecraft to "orbit".
The planetary bodies above the Earth revolve above it, thereby causing sunrise and sunset to occur. As the sun moves farther away, it shrinks until it is no longer able to be seen. The same phenomenon occurs with the stars to cause their movement.
The society's Flat Earth hypothesis states that as a ship moves farther away, the chance of a wave being in front of the ship relative to a viewer's perspective on shore increases. Therefore, because the ship moves farther away and becomes smaller, a wave is able to obscure a larger portion of the hull until the ship is no longer visible. Other factors that also contribute to this effect is atmospheric distortion and human eyesight.
Tides are caused by a slight tilting of the Earth, causing water to "slosh" back and forth. The tilt is very small, and very unlikely to be noticed.
As the sun orbits over the Earth, the Flat Earth theory maintains that the sun's orbit radius changes, causing it to be directly overhead different locations at different times of the year.
Gravity in the Flat Earth is caused by constant acceleration upwards of everything in the universe, as per Einstein's equivalence principle. [2]
Post #32
That was close to what I was interested in.The planetary bodies above the Earth revolve above it, thereby causing sunrise and sunset to occur. As the sun moves farther away, it shrinks until it is no longer able to be seen. The same phenomenon occurs with the stars to cause their movement.
However(like I said before), I am unfamiliar with the flat Earth position and need more of an explanation. One explanation would be the position of the sun and moon in relation to the flat Earth.
Proposed demonstration would be something like this...
The coin(Earth) is laying on it's face. The Sun and Moon are following the edge of the coin 3,000 miles above.
-OR-
The coin(Earth) is sitting on it's edge. Like you are about to pluck it, to make it spin. The Sun and Moon are orbiting the coin going from "heads" side to "tails" side and back again.
Both of these demonstrations have serious problems with the proposed "upward lift" of the universe and it must be something else. Please answer my first two questions that I did not see an answer to...
How can it be day time and night time at the same time on a flat earth?
Why is it never night time across the entire planet at the same time?
And now please explain...
The relation of the Earth, Sun, Moon, and stars to each other. (Like stated above)
Please explain the "upward lift" of the universe and why it's effect decreases as we move further from the Earth.
There are now 4 questions I am seeking answers for.
Post #33
jamesearl wrote:I really hope you are a Poe, otherwise I find it amazing how one can refute a fact that was discovered BEFORE THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN especially when the only things needed to discover this was a couple sticks, a ruler and some basic mathematics.Umm no, Eratosthenes calculated very accurately the circumference of the world approximately 2200 years ago.Eh, no. The round-world theory is relative new, and came to be known more publically around 500 years ago. Before that, the Church and the worlds population generally had the right idea regarding our flat world.
Dogma does not make for good science. For evidence simply go to the top of a skyscraper especially if it is close to a major body of water and you can actually see the curvature of the earth, or the next time you take a flight look out the window.The church had defended the flat earth, as well as that the world is the center of the world for centuries, it was when "science" got power they were force to change, and now, today, children are suppose to take for granted that the world is round.
Please provide EVIDENCE, not your Bible bashing rubbish.
Post #34
1. Christianity did not exist then.Umm no, Eratosthenes calculated very accurately the circumference of the world approximately 2200 years ago.
2. ONE GUY is not THE WORLD.
Who listened to his insane claims?
Very nice. Maybe you should start providing evidence for your round-world theory instead of bashing our theory? If round-world is real, it should be easy enough for you to prove, oh, and explain how the water does not fall off.Dogma does not make for good science. For evidence simply go to the top of a skyscraper especially if it is close to a major body of water and you can actually see the curvature of the earth, or the next time you take a flight look out the window.
1. A test for you. Take a Plate, put it on the table and fill it with water until the brim. Oohh, it STAYS.
2. Now, take a football, put it on the table, and poor water over it to see how the water stays all AROUND the ball.
Oh, HOLD ON, that would onyl work if your round-world theory was correct, wouldn´t it?
one nill to JE.
upallnite, i respect you, but please, if you seriously believe in this round-world nonsense, provide EVIDENCE instead of attacking flat-world theory, ok? We admit we could be wrong with some instances, all theories do, but that does not make the flat-world theory WRONG, we know it is happening, you can see it now, just because we debate certain details does not make it all wrong.That was close to what I was interested in.
However(like I said before), I am unfamiliar with the flat Earth position and need more of an explanation. One explanation would be the position of the sun and moon in relation to the flat Earth.
Proposed demonstration would be something like this...
So please.
Post #35
Jamesearl,
You keep barrading people for evidence, yet when people provide you with questions, you continually ignore them, focusing instead on repeating your claim.
Are you dileberatly ignoring the questions because you have no answer?
Or do you feel that your theory is too obvious to be questioned?
Either way, i find it rather ignorant and unfair of you to keep barrading people for evidence, when you aren't defending your own evidence against questions. If fact they only thing I have seen you do is put people down and ride things off as hallucinations or propaganda. What makes you so sure then that the Bible is not a form of Propaganda itself?
Anyway, back to the point, and I hope you will answer a few questions and offer a few logical rebuttals. Just because you have no evidence to refute some of these questions does not make then government propaganda. That is complete arrogance.
First I'll repeat the questions from upallnight:
How can it be day time and night time at the same time on a flat earth?
Why is it never night time across the entire planet at the same time?
Now I will provide my own questions:
1. You were talking earlier about the how some areas of the earth are cold and some are warm, but I am curious as to how you explain why this is? First, using the round-Earth model, it is evident why the areas in the middle section of the earth (between the two poles) is warmest, because those are the areas of the Earth that receive the sunlight most directly. If you were to use your round Earth model, you have to answer why the sun does not heat the entire earth at the same temperature, and why it leaves only the center and the outer-most areas cold. That doesn't make sense, unless the sun were donut shaped with a giant hole in the center of it that failed to produce heat to warm the center of the disc-shaped Earth.
2. Riding on upallnight's question about why is it never night time across the whole planet, I am also wondering how you explain the fact that during different seasons the two poles receive extreme amounts of either daytime or nighttime due to the spherical earth's tilt. When it is summer in the northern hemisphere, it is winter in the southern (again to to the Earth's tilt) so if the Earth were flat, you would have to explain to me while during the summer you can pretty much read a book at midnight in Alaska, but it is nearly always nighttime at the south pole, and visa-versa for the winter season in Alaska and summer season at the south pole.
3. How do you explain people that have visited antarctica, or trekked across antarctica? They did not reach the end of the Earth, or some impassable wall, they simply found the other side.
4. If, indeed, the Earth was flat, people who have scaled Mt. Everest (the tallest point on Earth) would, in theory, have been able to see every part of Earth, right? Yet if you have ever seen video of a summit, you would know that you see the curvature of the horizon and the land as it fades into that curve. If you brought a telescope to the summit, you would not be able to use it to see every part of the Earth. The same can be said if you were riding in an airplane. If you assume the Earth is flat you would be able to use a telescope to observe every part of Earth, and I am certain that if you went out tomorrow and tried that, you could not.
5. You keep claiming that if the Earth was round that the water (and I guess everthing else) would simply fall off of it. I am assuming that you find the theory of gravity to be another government conspiracy (I wonder how you explain the fact that things fall back to Earth, wether it's round or not) and I am not really sure how to approach your illeducation. There are plenty of resources I am sure I could find you if you would like to learn more about the theory of gravity.
Now I sincerely hope that you can take a logical approach to this, realize that none of this is propaganda or illusion, and offer your rebuttal with evidence and reasoning.
You keep barrading people for evidence, yet when people provide you with questions, you continually ignore them, focusing instead on repeating your claim.
Are you dileberatly ignoring the questions because you have no answer?
Or do you feel that your theory is too obvious to be questioned?
Either way, i find it rather ignorant and unfair of you to keep barrading people for evidence, when you aren't defending your own evidence against questions. If fact they only thing I have seen you do is put people down and ride things off as hallucinations or propaganda. What makes you so sure then that the Bible is not a form of Propaganda itself?
Anyway, back to the point, and I hope you will answer a few questions and offer a few logical rebuttals. Just because you have no evidence to refute some of these questions does not make then government propaganda. That is complete arrogance.
First I'll repeat the questions from upallnight:
How can it be day time and night time at the same time on a flat earth?
Why is it never night time across the entire planet at the same time?
Now I will provide my own questions:
1. You were talking earlier about the how some areas of the earth are cold and some are warm, but I am curious as to how you explain why this is? First, using the round-Earth model, it is evident why the areas in the middle section of the earth (between the two poles) is warmest, because those are the areas of the Earth that receive the sunlight most directly. If you were to use your round Earth model, you have to answer why the sun does not heat the entire earth at the same temperature, and why it leaves only the center and the outer-most areas cold. That doesn't make sense, unless the sun were donut shaped with a giant hole in the center of it that failed to produce heat to warm the center of the disc-shaped Earth.
2. Riding on upallnight's question about why is it never night time across the whole planet, I am also wondering how you explain the fact that during different seasons the two poles receive extreme amounts of either daytime or nighttime due to the spherical earth's tilt. When it is summer in the northern hemisphere, it is winter in the southern (again to to the Earth's tilt) so if the Earth were flat, you would have to explain to me while during the summer you can pretty much read a book at midnight in Alaska, but it is nearly always nighttime at the south pole, and visa-versa for the winter season in Alaska and summer season at the south pole.
3. How do you explain people that have visited antarctica, or trekked across antarctica? They did not reach the end of the Earth, or some impassable wall, they simply found the other side.
4. If, indeed, the Earth was flat, people who have scaled Mt. Everest (the tallest point on Earth) would, in theory, have been able to see every part of Earth, right? Yet if you have ever seen video of a summit, you would know that you see the curvature of the horizon and the land as it fades into that curve. If you brought a telescope to the summit, you would not be able to use it to see every part of the Earth. The same can be said if you were riding in an airplane. If you assume the Earth is flat you would be able to use a telescope to observe every part of Earth, and I am certain that if you went out tomorrow and tried that, you could not.
5. You keep claiming that if the Earth was round that the water (and I guess everthing else) would simply fall off of it. I am assuming that you find the theory of gravity to be another government conspiracy (I wonder how you explain the fact that things fall back to Earth, wether it's round or not) and I am not really sure how to approach your illeducation. There are plenty of resources I am sure I could find you if you would like to learn more about the theory of gravity.
Now I sincerely hope that you can take a logical approach to this, realize that none of this is propaganda or illusion, and offer your rebuttal with evidence and reasoning.
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OnceConvinced
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Post #36
Jamesearl, I find it remarkable that you take one so-called Holy book and will not even consider other holy books on this matter. Have you ever studied Jule's Verne's "Around the world in 80 days?" In this book, the messiah, Phinnea Fogg travels around the world heading in only one direction and ends up back at the point he started. He did not go sailing off the end of the world, which he would have done if the world was flat.
A famous Saint by the name of Micheal Palin attempted to do exactly the same journey and did so, taking the same route. This was televised and available for purchase on DVD
A famous Saint by the name of Micheal Palin attempted to do exactly the same journey and did so, taking the same route. This was televised and available for purchase on DVD
Post #37
I did not say that I support the round Earth position. I made sure to state that I am curious about the flat Earth position. I simply do not know what the flat Earth position is. That is why I am asking questions. If you are unwilling or unable to answer my questions then could you please point me to who can.jamesearl wrote:upallnite, i respect you, but please, if you seriously believe in this round-world nonsense, provide EVIDENCE instead of attacking flat-world theory, ok? We admit we could be wrong with some instances, all theories do, but that does not make the flat-world theory WRONG, we know it is happening, you can see it now, just because we debate certain details does not make it all wrong.
So please.
My questions still remain.
How can it be day time and night time at the same time on a flat earth?
Why is it never night time across the entire planet at the same time?
What is the relation of the Earth, Sun, Moon, and stars to each other.
Please explain the "upward lift" of the universe and why it's effect decreases as we move further from the Earth.
Due to the conversation I would like to add these questions.
If you are unwilling or unable to answer a few basic questions about the flat earth position, then why are you attempting to debate with it as a central point?
Would it not be better to debate about something you have some knowledge about?What is the speed of the upward lift and the speed of the Sun, Moon, and stars as they orbit the Earth?
I now have 7 questions that I am looking for answers to. Can you answer them?
Post #38
Clearly you did not read what i supplied, it explained most of your questions. I guess this proves the "mutual" respect you show to me.upallnite wrote:I did not say that I support the round Earth position. I made sure to state that I am curious about the flat Earth position. I simply do not know what the flat Earth position is. That is why I am asking questions. If you are unwilling or unable to answer my questions then could you please point me to who can.jamesearl wrote:upallnite, i respect you, but please, if you seriously believe in this round-world nonsense, provide EVIDENCE instead of attacking flat-world theory, ok? We admit we could be wrong with some instances, all theories do, but that does not make the flat-world theory WRONG, we know it is happening, you can see it now, just because we debate certain details does not make it all wrong.
So please.
My questions still remain.
How can it be day time and night time at the same time on a flat earth?
Why is it never night time across the entire planet at the same time?
What is the relation of the Earth, Sun, Moon, and stars to each other.
Please explain the "upward lift" of the universe and why it's effect decreases as we move further from the Earth.
Due to the conversation I would like to add these questions.
If you are unwilling or unable to answer a few basic questions about the flat earth position, then why are you attempting to debate with it as a central point?
Would it not be better to debate about something you have some knowledge about?What is the speed of the upward lift and the speed of the Sun, Moon, and stars as they orbit the Earth?
I now have 7 questions that I am looking for answers to. Can you answer them?
Regarding what you said: If you are unwilling or unable to answer a few basic questions about the flat earth position, then why are you attempting to debate with it as a central point?
This is a pure insult. You have not shown me any evidence for the round-world theory, whiles i have supplied information (which you do not accept), this is hypocrisy from your side upallnite, do you not see this?
I was afraid of this, i was hoping to get a proper debate seriously questioning the round-world theory, but clearly you seem unwilling to question your beliefs. I have supplied information after information, i answered your questions as good as i can, and you continue to act like the flat-world theory is insane, and your round-world theory is "the truth" without giving any logic behind it.
But I am fair, i know you wont accept ot challenge your beliefs. You will never accept reality, so, i make it simple, Ask me up to 3 Simple Questions and i will respond, But ONLY if you answer my 3 questions in return regarding your Round-World-Theory.
Fair?
Post #39
I read what you wrote. But, it raised other questions and did not fully answer the questions I asked. If you have more knowledge on the flat Earth position then it should be able to answer my questions. Or at least show how my questions are invalid. This would show mutual respect and allow both of us to correspond effectively. Until, I know what the flat Earth position is I cannot say I disagree with it.jamesearl wrote:Clearly you did not read what i supplied, it explained most of your questions. I guess this proves the "mutual" respect you show to me.upallnite wrote:I did not say that I support the round Earth position. I made sure to state that I am curious about the flat Earth position. I simply do not know what the flat Earth position is. That is why I am asking questions. If you are unwilling or unable to answer my questions then could you please point me to who can.jamesearl wrote:upallnite, i respect you, but please, if you seriously believe in this round-world nonsense, provide EVIDENCE instead of attacking flat-world theory, ok? We admit we could be wrong with some instances, all theories do, but that does not make the flat-world theory WRONG, we know it is happening, you can see it now, just because we debate certain details does not make it all wrong.
So please.
My questions still remain.
How can it be day time and night time at the same time on a flat earth?
Why is it never night time across the entire planet at the same time?
What is the relation of the Earth, Sun, Moon, and stars to each other.
Please explain the "upward lift" of the universe and why it's effect decreases as we move further from the Earth.
Due to the conversation I would like to add these questions.
If you are unwilling or unable to answer a few basic questions about the flat earth position, then why are you attempting to debate with it as a central point?
Would it not be better to debate about something you have some knowledge about?What is the speed of the upward lift and the speed of the Sun, Moon, and stars as they orbit the Earth?
I now have 7 questions that I am looking for answers to. Can you answer them?
I did not mean it as an insult. I am sorry you took it as an insult. I am not here to prove a round Earth. I am here to find out about a flat Earth. Again, I excepted your information. But, it did not answer my questions and caused me to have more questions. If you are not able to answer these questions could you advise me as to who is?Regarding what you said: If you are unwilling or unable to answer a few basic questions about the flat earth position, then why are you attempting to debate with it as a central point?
This is a pure insult. You have not shown me any evidence for the round-world theory, whiles i have supplied information (which you do not accept), this is hypocrisy from your side upallnite, do you not see this?
I did not call any one/thing insane. I have not claimed any truth. All I did was ask a few questions. What is wrong with asking questions?I was afraid of this, i was hoping to get a proper debate seriously questioning the round-world theory, but clearly you seem unwilling to question your beliefs. I have supplied information after information, i answered your questions as good as i can, and you continue to act like the flat-world theory is insane, and your round-world theory is "the truth" without giving any logic behind it.
I have not claimed a round Earth position. But, for the debate I will attempt to answer your questions. You can pick any of my 3 questions to answer in return. But to be fair I ask that you answer my questions first since I asked them first.But I am fair, i know you wont accept ot challenge your beliefs. You will never accept reality, so, i make it simple, Ask me up to 3 Simple Questions and i will respond, But ONLY if you answer my 3 questions in return regarding your Round-World-Theory.
Fair?
Fair?
Please pick 3 questions...
How can it be day time and night time at the same time on a flat earth?
Why is it never night time across the entire planet at the same time?
What is the relation of the Earth, Sun, Moon, and stars to each other.
Please explain the "upward lift" of the universe and why it's effect decreases as we move further from the Earth.
What is the speed of the upward lift and the speed of the Sun, Moon, and stars as they orbit the Earth?
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byofrcs
Post #40
No, you have stated that the world is indoctrinated into the round-world model. I hadn't made that claim.jamesearl wrote:byofrcs, ah, finally a debater, just one problem with your first words:
No. The world has been indoctrinated into the round-world model, You made this claim. The Bible states clearly the world is flat, i hold this to be true, and, as stated, we would fall off if it were round wouldn´t we? Anyway, to your post:No, it is YOU that is claiming it is flat but as yet have provided no evidence to support this theory.
You said you could fly from California to Alaska but have you actually done that ?. How do I know that is even possible ? I only have your word for that. Sorry but unless you can provide evidence that you can and have flown from California to Alaska that you use that to support your bizarre claim that their are different weathers all over the world is wrong.
I look out my window and I see just one weather. It's either raining or sunny or whatever the weather. I can't see the rest of the world from where I am to see if they are snowing, dark, sunny or raining.
Only one weather at a time please. Now if you can provide some method in which I could see more than one weather at a time then please do.
