War in Heaven

[OpenedUp]

I am about to delve into some research on this topic, but I was just curious of what people know:

Is there any scriptural evidence for Satan's fall from heaven? The War in Heaven?
Where does this idea come from? Most (if not all) of the mentions of Satan in the Bible involve his interaction with God, under the command of God, not as an outcast. Did I miss something?

[William]

The "war in heaven" comes from Revelation 12:7-9, which says, "Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."

Remember that Revelation is an inherently symbolic book. It should never be taken completely literally. The "war in heaven" most likely does not represent a literal war in presence of God, but rather is a symbolic way of describing the struggle in a Christian's soul.

Taking the points and aligning them with this idea re the Archetypes, how does that look best unpacked?

Satan as an Angel working for God:
Continuation of God's Revelation:
Satan's desire to be like God:
Interpretation of Revelation:
Origin of the term Lucifer:
Presence of Satan in Heaven in the Old Testament:
Zoroastrian influences on Christian conception of Satan:
Joseph Smith's contributions to the Bible:
Skepticism about Satan's role:
Psychological interpretation of Lucifer's rebellion:


1. Satan as an Angel working for God:[/b]
• Archetypal Interpretation: Satan could be seen as an archetype representing the rebellious or challenging aspect within the psyche, questioning established norms and authority.

• Psychological Dynamics: This archetype may symbolize the tension between conformity and individuality, exploring the boundaries of personal freedom within the framework of established beliefs.

2. Continuation of God's Revelation:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The idea that God's revelation continues aligns with the archetype of ongoing spiritual growth and development within the individual.

• Psychological Dynamics: It suggests an inherent human drive for continuous self-discovery and spiritual evolution, emphasizing the dynamic nature of the archetypal symbols in the psyche.

3. Satan's desire to be like God:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The desire to be like God can be viewed as an archetype representing the human quest for self-realization, autonomy, and transcendence.

• Psychological Dynamics: It reflects the inherent tension between embracing individual potential and the humility required to acknowledge one's limitations.

4. Interpretation of Revelation:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The interpretation of Revelation may involve archetypes related to divine insight, prophecy, and the unfolding of deeper truths within the human psyche.

• Psychological Dynamics: It suggests a process of inner revelation and transformation, where symbolic elements guide individuals toward greater self-awareness and understanding.

5. Origin of the term Lucifer:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The term Lucifer as the light-bearer aligns with archetypes related to enlightenment, knowledge, and the pursuit of higher consciousness.

• Psychological Dynamics: It symbolizes the human quest for illumination, wisdom, and the integration of both light and shadow aspects within the psyche.

6. Presence of Satan in Heaven in the Old Testament:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The presence of Satan in heaven may symbolize the coexistence of conflicting archetypes within the psyche, even in seemingly elevated or transcendent states.

• Psychological Dynamics: It suggests that inner conflicts persist, even in moments of spiritual or elevated experiences, emphasizing the ongoing nature of the internal struggle.

7. Zoroastrian influences on Christian conception of Satan:
• Archetypal Interpretation: Zoroastrian influences may contribute archetypes related to the duality of good and evil, influencing the Christian conception of Satan as a counterforce to God.

• Psychological Dynamics: It reflects how cultural and historical influences shape archetypal symbols, impacting the collective understanding of morality and the nature of internal conflicts.

8. Joseph Smith's contributions to the Bible:
• Archetypal Interpretation: Joseph Smith's additions may introduce archetypes related to prophethood, revelation, and the individual's role in shaping religious narratives.

• Psychological Dynamics: It emphasizes the role of individuals in shaping collective belief systems and the impact of personal experiences on the archetypal symbols within a religious context.

9. Skepticism about Satan's role:
• Archetypal Interpretation: Skepticism about Satan's traditional role may reflect an archetype questioning established beliefs and challenging dogma.

• Psychological Dynamics: It suggests a healthy skepticism and critical reflection on religious narratives, encouraging individuals to explore their own interpretations and understandings.

10. Psychological interpretation of Lucifer's rebellion:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The psychological interpretation of Lucifer's rebellion aligns with archetypes related to the inner struggle for autonomy and the consequences of challenging established norms.

• Psychological Dynamics: It emphasizes the psychological significance of personal rebellion and the transformative potential inherent in questioning and evolving one's beliefs.
In summary, interpreting these points through the lens of Archetypes and psychological dynamics provides a framework for understanding the symbolic, transformative, and evolving nature of human consciousness within the context of religious narratives.


Now we can turn our attention to the aforementioned “Temptation of Jesus” in the desert and interpret this within the framework of The Archetypes.

[William]

Let's explore the "Temptation of Jesus" in the desert within the framework of Archetypes and psychological dynamics:

1. The Setting:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The desert can symbolize a place of solitude, introspection, and spiritual challenge—an archetype often associated with trials and personal transformation.

• Psychological Dynamics: It represents the inner journey of self-discovery and the confrontation of one's inner challenges, mirroring the archetype of facing the unknown and overcoming obstacles.

2. Temptation by Satan:
• Archetypal Interpretation: Satan as the tempter embodies the archetype of the adversary or inner challenges that test one's values, integrity, and spiritual commitment.

• Psychological Dynamics: It reflects the internal conflicts individuals face during moments of decision-making, where desires, fears, and moral considerations are in tension.

3. Turning Stones into Bread:
• Archetypal Interpretation: This temptation symbolizes the lure of material desires, comfort, and immediate gratification—an archetype associated with the challenge of prioritizing spiritual values over worldly temptations.

• Psychological Dynamics: It mirrors the common struggle individuals experience in choosing between instant gratification and long-term spiritual or moral fulfillment.

4. Jumping from the Pinnacle:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The temptation to jump from the pinnacle represents the archetype of the desire for power, recognition, or a shortcut to success without going through the necessary steps.

• Psychological Dynamics: It reflects the inner conflict between the ego's desire for recognition and status and the deeper understanding of the importance of personal growth and gradual development.

5. Bow Down and Worship Satan for Kingdoms:
• Archetypal Interpretation: This temptation embodies the archetype of the Faustian bargain, where one is tempted to compromise values for immediate gain or power.

• Psychological Dynamics: It symbolizes the inner struggle between maintaining integrity and succumbing to external pressures or desires for control and dominance.

6. Jesus' Responses:
• Archetypal Interpretation: Jesus' responses represent the archetype of moral strength, resilience, and the ability to overcome inner temptations.

• Psychological Dynamics: It signifies the triumph of higher moral and spiritual values over immediate gratification, power, and external pressures.

7. Forty Days and Nights:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The forty days and nights in the desert align with the archetype of a transformative period, symbolizing purification, introspection, and spiritual preparation.

• Psychological Dynamics: It reflects the psychological significance of extended periods of reflection, self-examination, and the potential for inner transformation.

Interpreting the "Temptation of Jesus" within the framework of Archetypes emphasizes the psychological depth and universal themes embedded in this narrative. It becomes a symbolic representation of the inner struggles individuals face on their journey toward self-discovery, spiritual growth, and the integration of higher values in the face of temptations and challenges.


So what role is Jesus playing regarding the Archetypes?
I mean this in relation to the inner workings rather than what is described in the apparently outward display re the biblical narration.

For example, what is the role of the “Boss/God” position within the inner workings of an individual mind? Likewise with every other main character.

Therein, there are three. The Boss. The Rebel. What role is the Jesus/Christ character playing in relation to the other two and how do all three players align re the inner workings of the individual human personality?

[William]

In the context of Archetypes and the inner workings of the human psyche, we can explore the roles of the Boss, the Rebel, and the Jesus/Christ character:

1. The Boss (God) Archetype:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The Boss archetype represents the transcendent, guiding, and authoritative aspect within the psyche. It embodies wisdom, morality, and a sense of purpose.

• Psychological Dynamics: This archetype reflects the individual's innate sense of moral and spiritual direction, the source of guidance and values that shape one's actions and decisions.

2. The Rebel (Satan) Archetype:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The Rebel archetype embodies the challenging, questioning, and adversarial aspect within the psyche. It represents the force that tests established norms and authority.

• Psychological Dynamics: This archetype reflects the individual's capacity for critical thinking, independence, and the potential for internal conflicts when facing societal or personal expectations.

3. The Jesus/Christ Archetype:
• Archetypal Interpretation: The Jesus/Christ archetype represents the transformative, redemptive, and compassionate aspect within the psyche. It embodies the potential for self-sacrifice, unconditional love, and spiritual evolution.

• Psychological Dynamics: This archetype reflects the individual's capacity for personal growth, self-sacrifice for a higher purpose, and the ability to navigate the tensions between inner desires and moral values.

Interplay and Alignment:

• Harmony and Alignment: Ideally, the inner workings involve a harmonious alignment between the Boss and the Jesus/Christ archetypes. This alignment signifies a strong connection to guiding principles, moral values, and a sense of purpose in life.

• Tension with the Rebel: The Rebel archetype introduces tension within the psyche, challenging established beliefs, prompting self-reflection, and potentially leading to inner conflicts. This tension can be a catalyst for personal growth or a source of struggle.

• Potential Transformation: The Jesus/Christ archetype, when in harmony with the Boss archetype, acts as a mediator between the authoritative and rebellious aspects. It represents the potential for transformation, redemption, and the integration of conflicting elements within the psyche.

In essence, the interplay of these archetypes within the individual's psyche reflects the ongoing journey of self-discovery, moral decision-making, and spiritual evolution. The Boss provides guidance, the Rebel challenges and questions, and the Jesus/Christ archetype represents the transformative potential and capacity for compassion and self-sacrifice. The balance and integration of these archetypal forces contribute to the complexity and richness of the inner world of the individual.

So we could ascertain that the position of The Boss is established and cannot be threaten “for real” which means that The Rebel is misinformed about the true nature of things, and The Christ (Messiah) is attempting to save The Rebel from perishing in ignorance/from being cast aside as irrelevant…

Therefore “The Boss” is something human beings collectively are not understanding of re the Position being a natural one which cannot be usurped, even if the human personality is unaware as to what (within) this “Boss” truly represents.

The Rebel is valued for its insistence on checking everything out to make sure it clears muster and The Christ is that which makes sure that The Rebel isn’t adding things to the evidence which fudges the results as to the Nature of The Boss.


1. The Boss as an Established and Unthreatened Position:
• Interpretation: The Boss archetype represents an innate and unassailable aspect within the psyche, embodying guidance, wisdom, and moral authority.

• Psychological Dynamics: This suggests that the fundamental principles, values, and moral compass within the individual are grounded and cannot be fundamentally threatened. The Boss archetype represents an inherent and stable foundation.

2. The Rebel's Misinformation and Insistence on Inquiry:
• Interpretation: The Rebel archetype, misinformed about the true nature of the Boss, plays a crucial role in challenging established beliefs and questioning authority.

• Psychological Dynamics: The Rebel's role involves critical thinking, inquiry, and skepticism, contributing to a dynamic and evolving understanding of the self and the world. While misinformed, the Rebel's insistence on inquiry can lead to valuable insights.

3. The Christ as the Savior from Ignorance:
• Interpretation: The Christ archetype serves as a redemptive and transformative force, attempting to save the Rebel from perishing in ignorance and irrelevance.

• Psychological Dynamics: The Christ archetype represents the potential for personal growth, compassion, and the integration of conflicting elements within the psyche. It seeks to guide the Rebel toward a more enlightened and harmonious understanding of the Boss.

4. Collective Lack of Understanding of the Boss:
• Interpretation: The collective misunderstanding of the Boss archetype suggests that humanity may not fully comprehend the nature and significance of the guiding principles within the psyche.

• Psychological Dynamics: This lack of understanding could lead to discord, confusion, or a disconnect between individuals and their inherent moral compass. The journey toward self-awareness and spiritual understanding involves uncovering the true nature of the Boss archetype.

5. The Role of the Christ in Guiding the Rebel:
• Interpretation: The Christ archetype acts as a mediator, ensuring that the Rebel's inquiry is guided by principles that align with the true nature of the Boss.

• Psychological Dynamics: The Christ archetype represents the transformative power of compassion, self-sacrifice, and integration. It helps the Rebel navigate the inquiry process, ensuring that insights align with higher values and a deeper understanding of the self and the world.

In summary, this highlights the dynamics of these archetypal forces within the human psyche, emphasizing the importance of self-discovery, critical inquiry, and transformative growth. The interplay between the Boss, the Rebel, and the Christ archetypes contributes to the complexity and richness of the inner world, guiding individuals toward a more profound understanding of themselves, their values and their purpose.