There isnt any truth,hence there isnt any god

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worship-your-mother-she-i
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There isnt any truth,hence there isnt any god

Post #1

Post by worship-your-mother-she-i »

Many christians think that they follow the truthful religion,truthful god,true way of life etc.Jesus even said "i am truth".But what is truth?

Aristotle defined truth as "words that correspond to reality are truth".THis is the most acceptbale definition of truth till date.Most dictionaries use this definition.There is one deflationary theory of truth by tarski.But that isnt in use since it was defeated in debates.

Now let me attack this correspondence theory of truth.

"can anything correspond to reality?"--NO WAY

Imagine a mango.Now consider this statement "Mango is yellow".Is this truth?Let us compare it with another statement.

"This mango is slightly greenish yellow".

Now the first statement becomes a lie.The second statement is better than the first one.But the first statement wasnt intended to be dishonest.The speaker believed it to be "true."But now compared to second statement it has become a lie.

Now compare the second statement with the third statement.

"THis mango is greenish yellow in middle and dark in the top edge of it with a white spot in the lower edge".

Now this statement has negated the previous two statements.

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THis is the mistake we make in life.we label statements as true and false.But we have seen that even if you write a ten page essay about the color of the mango you can never describe reality in words.It is highly impossible.No words can ever describe reality.Not even a tiny portion of reality can be described exactly in words.It is impossible.So the correspondence theory of truth---is impossible to follow.So all of us are liers.

So stop using the word "truth".If you still think that there is a correct description of truth come out with it.Refer any dictionary,philosopher and try to define truth.You cannot.

we should realize that there isnt any truth.we should realize that there isnt anything called as objectivity.we only have subjectivity.we should realize that holy books were only giving their descriptions of reality.It is not the ultimate and final description.They are just a descriptions.They are neither right,nor wrong.They are just descriptions,thats all.There can be better descriptions of reality.

If we stick descriptions written thousands of years ago we refuse to progress.we should realize that they are the descriptions of people and it is possible to come out with better descriptions.

Newton gave his description about time.But that was later redescribed better by einstein.But we should realize that even einsteins was not the ultimate description.It was a description,thats all.it is possible to come out with a better description.

So there is nothing called as truth or ultimate final description.Stop having such myths.

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potwalloper.
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Post #2

Post by potwalloper. »

So there is nothing called as truth or ultimate final description.Stop having such myths
Mathematical theorems are absolute truths and are not subject to personal interpretation. They are absolutely true forever.

However I appreciate what you are saying about the influence of subjective interpretation on "truth". The real answer is that in attempting to describe the physical world many truths are relative. But, of course, just because they are relative does not make them any less true to the individual who believes them to be true.

In some cultures there are only two colours - blue and not blue. Difficult to describe your mango in anything but relative terms when interacting with someone with that base for visual perception.

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Post #3

Post by Gaunt »

worship-your-mother-she-i wrote:we should realize that there isnt any truth
I would amend this to say that there is no absolute truth.

The sentence "This mango is slightly greenish yellow" does not make the sentence "This mango is yellow" false. It simply clarifies it. It is like rounding in mathematics. The degree of precision is finer in the second sentence, but the first sentence is still valid; it is simply less precise.

worship-your-mother-she-i wrote:Not even a tiny portion of reality can be described exactly in words.
This may be true, but it says more about the nature of language than it does about the nature of truth. Language is, by necessity, fairly imprecise in some aspects. That does not mean that truth is nonexistent, but that our ability to express it is limited.
worship-your-mother-she-i wrote:So all of us are liars
Not liars as such, but we are all imprecise in how we relate concepts to one another. As long as the general idea is passed along, we are successful.
worship-your-mother-she-i wrote:.we should realize that there isnt anything called as objectivity.we only have subjectivity
While we interpret the outside world through our perceptions and thus everything we understand has a subjective note to it, there are some things that common sense dictates exist independent of ourselves. Therefore, some things can be considered as objective.
worship-your-mother-she-i wrote:They are just a descriptions.They are neither right,nor wrong.
Descriptions can be wrong. For instance "Apples are generally blue" would be wrong, even though it is a description.
worship-your-mother-she-i wrote:we should realize that holy books were only giving their descriptions of reality
It is often not the descriptions that people have a problem with in holy works, but rather the interpretations of events that those descriptions are based off of.

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Post #4

Post by otseng »

Moderation note: Since this thread is more philosophical in nature, rather than specifically related to Christianity, I have moved this to the Philosophy subforum.

I can possibly see that being able to verbally state anything that would be classified as the "truth" can be elusive. But how exactly does this show a truth cannot exist? And more specifically, how does it show that a god cannot exist?

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Post #5

Post by Simon »

Is it true that there is no truth?

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Travis
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Post #6

Post by Travis »

"What is truth?" - Pilate

I haven't had an 'absolute truth' discussion in a few weeks now, so I think I’ll jump in here now. I see a few flaws with this ever popular argument used by self-righteous intellectuals, including myself. It seems to be a cop out used to justify anything.

So if there is no absolute truth then there is no such thing as objectivity. If there is no objectivity then there are no universal morals. If there are no universal morals then is it ok for me to hate black people just because they have different skin pigmentation? Is it then ok for me to enslave them and force the females to perform sex acts with me? After all this is 'my truth'!


I'm with Jesus Christ and Ayn Rand on this one, constants exist. ;)

Relativism is flawed and guilty of butting up against my capacity for reason and logic. I also believe my capacity for reason and logic is absolute. I believe I exist as an absolute. I think therefore...

I guess what I’m trying to show is that the statement 'there are no absolutes' isn’t absolute. :whistle:

Some thoughts and questions to ask when thinking about relativism:

Is suffering real?

Do rights exist?

Are Gandhi and Goebbels essentially the same?

I look forward to answers to the questions raised in the preceding posts as well.
What is the first business of one who practices philosophy? To get rid of self-conceit. For it is impossible for anyone to begin to learn that which he thinks he already knows.
- Epictetus (Discourses)

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Post #7

Post by Simon »

Statements like, "There is no truth" and "There are no absolutes" are claims of truth, claims of absolutes. That's what we call self-referentially incoherent.

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worship-your-mother-she-i
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Post #8

Post by worship-your-mother-she-i »

Simon wrote:Statements like, "There is no truth" and "There are no absolutes" are claims of truth, claims of absolutes. That's what we call self-referentially incoherent.
"there is no truth"-This statement isnt a truth claim.What made you to think so?It is an expression of opinion.Its similiar to "God is great".Both are statements,thats all.

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Post #9

Post by TQWcS »

If it is just an expression of opinion then how does it prove the nonexistence of God?

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worship-your-mother-she-i
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Post #10

Post by worship-your-mother-she-i »

Travis wrote:"What is truth?" - Pilate


So if there is no absolute truth then there is no such thing as objectivity. If there is no objectivity then there are no universal morals. If there are no universal morals then is it ok for me to hate black people just because they have different skin pigmentation? Is it then ok for me to enslave them and force the females to perform sex acts with me? After all this is 'my truth'!

Is suffering real?

Do rights exist?

Are Gandhi and Goebbels essentially the same?

I look forward to answers to the questions raised in the preceding posts as well.
If you dont hate blacks only since you fear god then what sort of image does that portray about you?Do you say that if you dont believe in god you will start enslaving women and start misbehavior?Some great person you are.Many athiests live an exemplary moral life.Did they start enslaving women and hating blacks?

There is nothing called as objectivity.

There is nothing called as "absolute morals" or "absolute human rights".Nothing like that ever exists.Whatever human rights you enjoy were given to you by the government.There are no "fundamental rights which hang in the air" as a guiding light to all humanity.

Gandhi and Goebbels are both humans.I take gandhi as a role model but I also accept that goebbels was a human like you and me.Did he have a horn or an extra eye?He too is human.

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