Escape and Recovery from Warren Jeff’s FLDS Polygamous Cult

[Zzyzx]

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I am honored to be married to a remarkably self-made woman. She was raised in perhaps the most indoctrinating and limiting of environments of modern America – the Fundamentalist Later Day Saints; the polygamous offshoot from Mormonism. She escaped as a teenager and spent twenty years deprogramming herself and learning to live successfully in the real world.

The former “Prophet” of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), Warren Jeffs, is her uncle. He is currently serving “five years to life” in prison after being convicted for his role in a forced marriage and rape. My wife, fearing a fate like that of Elissa Wall (the girl that Jeffs forced to marry at 14 and who was subsequently raped by her husband/first cousin), escaped from the cult as a teenager and later helped her mother to escape and to literally kidnap her younger siblings.

FLDS members practice Polygyny today (multiple wives) and preach that a man can “gain the celestial kingdom” only by having a minimum of three wives – and that women can do so only by being “sealed” (church married) to a man who is going. http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f/f39ac.html.

The FLDS broke away from mainstream Mormonism (LDS) after the main Mormon church disavowed polygamy (after a convenient “revelation from god”) just in time to meet a condition for gaining statehood for Utah. FLDS members were excommunicated by the LDS.

Polygamy (multiple mates) / Polygyny (multiple wives specifically) is only a part of cult beliefs and practices. The church rules in all matters and owns most property. Men are “given” wives by church elders in accordance to their standing with the church. Powerful older men often have scores of wives. My wife’s grandfather (Warren’s father Rulon Jeffs) had something like 75 wives and untold numbers of children when he died as an old man – some of his wives were quite young).

Women are property of their fathers until marriage, then property of their husbands thereafter (but ultimately property of church elders). Young girls raised in the cult are indoctrinated to be totally subservient to males and to do exactly as they are told. Their education is preferably limited to church schools teaching religious dogma and making no effort toward true education. Women must be covered from neck to ankles and wrists with “proper” blouses and skirts (even when swimming). They have absolutely no choice in who they marry. Girls / women are “assigned” to a husband (who can be totally repulsive to them). Courtship is not involved. The two may have never met and they may be totally different in disposition and age. No matter. The church rules.

This is NOT a made up condemnation of the FLDS even though it sounds ridiculous that any such thing could happen in the United States in modern times. Any Internet search will yield abundant information and verification. For a quick overview see http://www.religioustolerance.org/flds.htm

My wife knows the difficulty of overcoming cult teachings through deprogramming, and she knows what is required to learn about the real world after being sequestered throughout childhood and taught only church dogma. It took this wonderful, highly intelligent woman twenty years to “become a whole person” and to lear to successfully function within the real world.

She has done an outstanding job of learning to be a strong, confident, well informed woman. Most escapees that we know have not done the hard work necessary and therefore are not strong or independent people. They, males and females alike, tend to be meek, indecisive, confused and beset with low self-image. They typically lack social skills and therefore struggle with personal interactions and with personal relationships. Their decision making ability is usually very poorly developed, so they allow others to make their decisions (often disastrously) – or they make a series of terrible choices on their own without knowing how to make informed decisions.

Alcoholism, drug addiction, prostitution and other forms of self-destructive and escapist behavior are very common among ex-cult members that we have known. Even suicide is not unknown. We do not choose to associate with the “walking wounded” that have not recovered from cultism (including family).

It is all but impossible for those without inside information to understand how thoroughly cult indoctrination limits individual thinking to church dogma and how little the cult people know about the outside world. Many live in the LDS communities of Hildale, Utah and Colorado City, Arizona (or similar communities in several states and Canada) and rarely or never venture into the real world.

Those raised in the cult have never known anything except total domination by church elders. They are discouraged from associating with people from “out in the world” as they refer to general society, so they do not learn about individual freedom, legal protections, sources of assistance for those who wish to leave the cult, etc. They attend church schools and are typically forbidden to socialize with “gentiles”.

Of those who do leave the cult, very few do the hard work necessary to overcome their indoctrination and to learn how to function in general society. An outsider cannot comprehend the totality of church domination and the lack of socialization that is inflicted upon members. All decisions are made by the church. Marriages are “arranged” by church elders – courtship is not involved – you marry who you are told to marry – possibly someone you dislike intensely. Men make all decisions for women and children – in accordance with church doctrine.

A man is “given” wives in some relation to his devotion to church elders and to his usefulness to the church. He is also “given” a house – but not the deed to the house. If the man falls out of favor with church elders, his wives and children are “taken from him”, and he is ordered to vacate the house. A high proportion of young men are driven from the cult – in order that “faithful” men can have a minimum of three wives (required to attain the “celestial kingdom” according to church doctrine).
http://www.childbrides.org/boys.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamenta ... Day_Saints

According to doctrine, a woman can attain the “celestial kingdom” only by being “sealed to” (church married) to a man who is going there. Men reign supreme. Women are nothing but baby machines and property of males – first their father, then their husband – for life – no exceptions. Men are similarly submissive to church elders. And, Warren Jeffs was the ultimate authority.

Utah and Arizona authorities have overlooked the crimes committed against women and children in the polygamous communities (somewhere around 10,000 people belong to the cult) for fear of bad publicity (as has occurred previously). In the last few years, however, enough attention has been drawn to the situation to make it unavoidable.

Warren Jeffs has been convicted and sentenced to five years to life in prison. The husband/cousin involved in the underage marriage faces rape charges. Perhaps this will be enough to break up church domination of the cult members (though many won’t know what to do or how to live).

Internet information is readily available about Warren Jeffs and the FLDS cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs
www.polygamy.org/about.shtml
www.exmormon.org
www.rickross.com/groups/polygamy.html
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19102395

This is intended as a brief overview and sample of a very involved story. I will add information periodically as appropriate, answer questions or engage in discussion.

If anyone has questions about life inside (and after) the cult, please feel free to ask in this thread or in a PM. My wife and I will give as good an answer as we can. However, we do not have information about recent inside developments, particularly those during the upheaval after Warren Jeffs was imprisoned.



What distinguishes a religious cult from a religious sect or denomination?

Is there any basic difference between cult indoctrination and “religious teaching (or training)”?

[McCulloch]

What distinguishes a religious cult from a religious sect or denomination?

It is only a matter of degree. But then again it is only a matter of degree between a lethal dose and lifesaving medicine.

[twobitsmedia]

What distinguishes a religious cult from a religious sect or denomination?

The degree to which one follows.

[otseng]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. And I have a small sense now of why you have a negative view of religion. If I were to experience something similar, I'd most likely be a non-theist too.

Is there any basic difference between cult indoctrination and “religious teaching (or training)”?

For me, the line is drawn when someone's freewill is violated. Take the case of an arranged marriage. If the couple accepts the arrangement from parents/elders, I see nothing wrong with it. If the couple is forced to marry against the will of either party, then it is wrong.

I had a roommate from India who was quite Americanized. But, he still wanted his parents to find him a wife. That surprised me since I had assumed he was the dating type. But, if that's what he wants, then he's free do it.

People should also be free to question teachings. If any dissent is prohibited, then I'd classify it as indoctrination. People should be allowed to have different views and to be able to argue why they believe in it.

No single source can claim to know all truth. They must be willing to accept this and not present themselves as being infallible. If anyone claims to know all truth, then it should immediately be suspect.

[McCulloch]

If any dissent is prohibited, then I'd classify it as indoctrination. People should be allowed to have different views and to be able to argue why they believe in it.

The prohibition of dissent is difficult to define. The group that says, "Sure you can question and dissent, but we cannot be unequally yoked with unbelievers so if you persist in your unbelief and questioning of God's authority, we will have no choice but to have nothing to do with you. " It looks like a de facto prohibition to me.

[Zzyzx]

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Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. And I have a small sense now of why you have a negative view of religion.

Actually, I rejected Catholicism about twenty years before my wife was born. I was eight years old and church officials LIED about something I had witnessed. My reaction was, “If they will lie to me about the little things they will lie to me about the big things” – and I began asking questions they could not answer. Those questions are STILL unanswered.

If I were to experience something similar, I'd most likely be a non-theist too.

Many who escape the cults do become at least non-theist and often anti-theist – for good reason.

Is there any basic difference between cult indoctrination and “religious teaching (or training)”?

For me, the line is drawn when someone's freewill is violated. Take the case of an arranged marriage. If the couple accepts the arrangement from parents/elders, I see nothing wrong with it. If the couple is forced to marry against the will of either party, then it is wrong.

My wife and I have friends who were members of one of the more fundamental sects of Christianity. They were “permitted” to marry but could well have been refused. Their choices of mates was extremely limited by church doctrine -- which seems like a serious infringement upon personal freedom.

Where does "force" begin?

I had a roommate from India who was quite Americanized. But, he still wanted his parents to find him a wife. That surprised me since I had assumed he was the dating type. But, if that's what he wants, then he's free do it.

Coercion, family pressure, and social pressure can be very influential in “choosing” to have a marriage arranged. I was closely associated with a Chinese/American woman whose mother had been a promised bride. Her husband, a much older man, was chosen by a brother. She was married to him for fifty years until he died – and HATED him. She lived for a few years as a “merry widow” and enjoyed being able to go to the grocery store unsupervised.

People should also be free to question teachings. If any dissent is prohibited, then I'd classify it as indoctrination. People should be allowed to have different views and to be able to argue why they believe in it.

Agree. Is this common and accepted practice in Christian congregations?

No single source can claim to know all truth. They must be willing to accept this and not present themselves as being infallible. If anyone claims to know all truth, then it should immediately be suspect.

AGREE 100%

[Chimp]

Zzzyzx,

Your post is both heartening and depressing. I glad to hear your wife has been able
to move on from such an experience, with scars I'm sure. But at the same time it's
depressing to think that cults exist at all.

I went to university in San Francisco and some of my sociology classes dealt with cults,
partly because they had been prevalent in the 60's in the Bay-area and because
they were still semi-active in targeting students.

The things I do remember about cults have mostly to do with their targeting of
vulnerable people. Target>isolate>indoctrinate. In the case of children it's particularly
despicable because they are already isolated (from greater society) and they are
trusting.

I'm not sure I can contribute anything to this topic other than to offer my sympathies,
to you and your wife. I know that extreme traumas are shared even though your wife
experienced it first hand, you end up a victim also by virtue of caring for her.

[cdcdcd]

When I first saw the descriptive heading for this post, I assumed it was "nothing more" than links to or quotations from other sources, and nearly dismissed it without looking. How wrong I was!

I have nothing but admiration for your wife, and compassion for the 20 lost years of her life, and her suffering.

It might be expected that your posts would exhibit bitterness and prejudice towards organised religion of all types. While your views are firmly atheistic, I see no bitterness or prejudice, and for that, you too deserve admiration.

Religious cults are an extreme case of "religion gone wrong", and in this case religion was deliberated mis-used as a method to empower men, especially with respect to their sexual desires.

I wish you both all the best in your lives together. I also consider you posts to be articulate and well reasoned. Religion is not necessarily bad, but blind adherance to religion most certainly is bad. I am sure there are many wonderful, thinking Christians on this list, and I urge them to become involved in discussions. Reasoned faith is to be encouraged, blind faith is just another name for ignorance. We ought all to be on the same side, that is, on the side of humanity.

[Zzyzx]

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I'm not sure I can contribute anything to this topic other than to offer my sympathies, to you and your wife. I know that extreme traumas are shared even though your wife experienced it first hand, you end up a victim also by virtue of caring for her.

Thanks Chimp.

We are pleased to report that the trauma is well behind her and the scars are all but gone. For the first few years of our marriage there were occasional actions / responses on her part that can only be understood as "the old stuff", but she had pretty well worked through things by the time we met. I only helped with the final phases of recovery (twenty years later).

A professional counselor familiar with cults and deprogramming helped her for several years soon after she left the cult. That was in the area where you attended the university (Walnut Creek, Oakland and general East Bay area). She then went on with personal development on her own.

For several years she has been working hard to fill in gaps in knowledge – things she should have learned as a young adult. In a way, she has “overcompensated” and is becoming better informed, more analytical and more articulate than most members of society.

The things I do remember about cults have mostly to do with their targeting of vulnerable people. Target>isolate>indoctrinate. In the case of children it's particularly despicable because they are already isolated (from greater society) and they are trusting.

Yes, targeting vulnerable people, particularly children, is despicable.

When a person is born in that environment they know nothing else. They are permitted to learn nothing else. They are NOT permitted to associate with people “out in the world”. That system is indoctrination beyond all argument and it is very negative.

The effect on minds is TERRIBLE. Low self-esteem, lack of self-confidence, meekness, and extreme conformity are characteristic. Independent thinking and decision making are non-existent. Social and relationship skills are immature at very best, and often absent completely.

Cult indoctrination can be reversed almost completely BUT that takes years and very hard personal, introspective work. My wife did that work. However, most former cult people have not done the work and are “walking wounded” – those who have deep scars and who do not have the skills to adapt comfortably to the real world.

[Confused]

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What distinguishes a religious cult from a religious sect or denomination?

Is there any basic difference between cult indoctrination and “religious teaching (or training)”?

A quick comment, not to diminish you, but your wife is a true example of inspiration and her accomplishments are true testaments to ones own strength to overcome even the worst of circumstances. To do so with her own strength, courage, and determination. She is truly special.

Now, on to the questions:
It used to be that the more extreme the beliefs, the more it was considered cult-like. I think we now call them fundamentalists. But I think the distinguishing difference is when the value starts to be placed on the "leader" as opposed to the God. When you start seeing Rev James as saving you rather than God as saving you. When Rev James starts taking credit for your salvation. Even this is inadequate though.

As McCulloch said, it is a separation of degrees. But I am not sure that even the most educated can really make a defining difference that we could hold all forms of religion against to place them somewhere along a spectrum of degrees. The problem will always come down to the interpretation of the scripture of the given denominations, cults, sects, whathaveyou.

The difference between cult indoctrination and religious teachings? Perceptions.