If the blood of christ really washed sins away.

[catholic crusader]

Now in the old testament god commands his followers to stone many people to death.

Then christ came and said that only those that are free from sins may engage in such merry sport.

Freeing people from having to carry out this hiddious task.

However the death of christ washed our sins away.

As such being free from sins do we not have to carry out gods will as laid forth in the bible "the word of god".

Long story short I loaded my pickup truck with rocks who's in?

I hope you have a strong throwing arm because the road to salvation is long and short with few people on it.

[catholic crusader]

No response?

[Victoria Silverwolf]

OK, I'll play along.

Now in the old testament god commands his followers to stone many people to death.

Yeah, that Old Testament YHWH is one bloodthirsty character, isn't he?

Then christ came and said that only those that are free from sins may engage in such merry sport.

Freeing people from having to carry out this hiddious task.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Makes you wonder why some unenlightened nations still have the death penalty.

However the death of christ washed our sins away.

As such being free from sins do we not have to carry out gods will as laid forth in the bible "the word of god".

Long story short I loaded my pickup truck with rocks who's in?

I hope you have a strong throwing arm because the road to salvation is long and short with few people on it.

OK, a little more seriously:

Mainstream Christian thought would be not that you don't sin, but that your sins are forgiven. In other words, nobody is "he who is without sin," but some folks get a "get into Heaven free" card anyway.

Of course, the real reason for the seeming contradiction is that it's just a story, written by a bunch of people over a long period of time, and that therefore it doesn't have to make sense.

[Goat]

Now in the old testament god commands his followers to stone many people to death.

Then christ came and said that only those that are free from sins may engage in such merry sport.

Freeing people from having to carry out this hiddious task.

However the death of christ washed our sins away.

As such being free from sins do we not have to carry out gods will as laid forth in the bible "the word of god".

Long story short I loaded my pickup truck with rocks who's in?

I hope you have a strong throwing arm because the road to salvation is long and short with few people on it.

Isaiah 11:1-18

11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? saith the L-rd; I am full of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats.

12 When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand, to trample My courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; it is an offering of abomination unto Me; new moon and sabbath, the holding of convocations--I cannot endure iniquity along with the solemn assembly.

14 Your new moons and your appointed seasons My soul hateth; they are a burden unto Me; I am weary to bear them.

15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear; your hands are full of blood.

16 Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes, cease to do evil;

17 Learn to do well; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the L-rd; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. "

Proverbs 16:6:

"6 By mercy and truth iniquity is atoned; and by the fear of the L-rd men depart from evil."

Nope.. blood not needed.. particularly the blood of a man.

[justifyothers]

Now in the old testament god commands his followers to stone many people to death.

Then christ came and said that only those that are free from sins may engage in such merry sport.

Freeing people from having to carry out this hiddious task.

However the death of christ washed our sins away.

As such being free from sins do we not have to carry out gods will as laid forth in the bible "the word of god".

Long story short I loaded my pickup truck with rocks who's in?

I hope you have a strong throwing arm because the road to salvation is long and short with few people on it.

Isaiah 11:1-18

11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? saith the L-rd; I am full of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats.

12 When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand, to trample My courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; it is an offering of abomination unto Me; new moon and sabbath, the holding of convocations--I cannot endure iniquity along with the solemn assembly.

14 Your new moons and your appointed seasons My soul hateth; they are a burden unto Me; I am weary to bear them.

15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear; your hands are full of blood.

16 Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes, cease to do evil;

17 Learn to do well; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow

18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the L-rd; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. "

Proverbs 16:6:

"6 By mercy and truth iniquity is atoned; and by the fear of the L-rd men depart from evil."

Nope.. blood not needed.. particularly the blood of a man.

And my personal favorite and one I quote often:

"For I desire mercy and not sacrifice." Hosea 6:6

[Goat]

Proverbs 16:6:

"6 By mercy and truth iniquity is atoned; and by the fear of the L-rd men depart from evil."

Nope.. blood not needed.. particularly the blood of a man.[/quote]

And my personal favorite and one I quote often:

"For I desire mercy and not sacrifice." Hosea 6:6[/quote]

This shows that Judaism was moving away from it's very primitive roots by the 8th century bce. Hosea's time probably ended about 725 bce.

[twpeck53]

Now in the old testament god commands his followers to stone many people to death.
Then christ came and said that only those that are free from sins may engage in such merry sport.
Freeing people from having to carry out this hiddious task.
However the death of christ washed our sins away.
As such being free from sins do we not have to carry out gods will as laid forth in the bible "the word of god".
Long story short I loaded my pickup truck with rocks who's in?
I hope you have a strong throwing arm because the road to salvation is long and short with few people on it.

Well, interesting but it is full of misunderstandings, so let's take each of your statements one by one: (your comments are in bold type)

"Now in the old testament god commands his followers to stone many people to death"

God did say that certain violations of His Law had stoning as a punishment: adultery comes to mind.

In our society, we have this concept of the crime matching the punishment. The "worse" the crime the bigger the fine or the longer the prison sentence. For example - murder: if it is accidental, there may be no legal ramifications, if you do it on purpose, (depending on where you live) you could have to forfeit your own life.

But who decides what is a "worse" or more heinous crime? It is the political system in place - legislator, oligarchy, king, dictator, etc.

God originally laid out a theocracy for Israel in the OT. He laid out a rule of Law and specified punishment for those laws. The Laws that were most important to Him had the more severe consequences. As a note of explanation, though, trying to get God's viewpoint: man was made in God's Image (Gen 1 & 2) and therefore any defilement of that image was an affront to God. We do not really see ourselves as God's image, so being stoned for sleeping with someone outside of marriage seems harsh, but to God it is a gross injustice.

"Then christ came and said that only those that are free from sins may engage in such merry sport.
Freeing people from having to carry out this hiddious task."

Hmm, could you cite the verse(s) where Christians are required to impose God's Law?

My take on it is that Christ fulfilled the Law (Matt 5:17ff) and took on all the punishment (death) for breaking God's Law.

Now, I strive to enforce the Law on my own flesh, and am only successful when I do this through Christ, but I cannot enforce on inform. If my brother sins, then I am to gently restore him (Gal 6:1).

So, I don't get where you come to this understanding.

"However the death of christ washed our sins away."

Cannot dispute that truth, but need to clarify a little. It is not really "our"(implied as everyone's) sins. His death actually opened the way to salvation to everyone. The requirements are to repent of your sins and to recieve Christ as Lord and Savior. "Lord" is an adherence to His being ruler over your life and "Savior" is acknowledging His being the only path to salvation.

"As such being free from sins do we not have to carry out gods will as laid forth in the bible "the word of god"."

I sort of already explained this above. We do carry strive to carry out God's will, but Christ changed that from a nation to ourselves. We are to work out God's will within us, not to others.

In fact, we are called to be kind and merciful and understanding towards others.

Unfortunately, many of my brothers and sisters in Christ (and myself as well) have difficulty in doing so (mainly because we are trying to do that in our own power and not under the control of God).

Implied here is the hypocracy of Christians and I would agree. It is a terribly imperfect religion but, then, it is really not a religion (though some try to make it so). It is a faith in a perfect, just, loving, merciful God. In Him, we can stumble and fall and fail but we are no longer condemned by our sins, and it is God who is working to perfect us. He grades on effort, not on result. He knows the heart. Seek after Him and He will cause you to come to Him.

"Long story short I loaded my pickup truck with rocks who's in?
I hope you have a strong throwing arm because the road to salvation is long and short with few people on it."

The tone here is one of a mocking sneer, so perhaps you have been hurt by a "Christian". For that I am deeply sorry. We often fail to "speak the Truth in Love" and are too often poor Ambassadors of Him, and, sadly, there a many Christians who want to "throw stones".

[Ilias Ahmad]

Now in the old testament god commands his followers to stone many people to death.
Then christ came and said that only those that are free from sins may engage in such merry sport.

First of all, according to you Christ is God! The same God who commanded His followers to stone to death adulterers, blasphemers, apostates, and children who curse their parents. Then all of a sudden he changes his mind and says only if you are sinless you can do this? Why was this criterion for sinlessness never laid down in the book leviticus, deuteronomy, etc.? Also, by not carrying out the command to stone these categories of sinners, isn't that a sin in it of itself. A sin is to disobey God. God says stone the adultress. By not stoning the adultress you are therefore sinning! Therefore, according to the Gospel of John, Jesus promoted sin!!!

However, this whole story from the Gospel of John, where Jesus says to free the adultress and only if you never sinned you can cast the first stone is a fabricated story, a later interpolation into the Gospel of John.

BibleGateway

((The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53-8:11.))

If this proves anything, it's that the early "Christian" church had no moral qualms about adding or deleting things from the words of Jesus.

[twpeck53]

Now in the old testament god commands his followers to stone many people to death.
Then christ came and said that only those that are free from sins may engage in such merry sport.

First of all, according to you Christ is God! The same God who commanded His followers to stone to death adulterers, blasphemers, apostates, and children who curse their parents. Then all of a sudden he changes his mind and says only if you are sinless you can do this? Why was this criterion for sinlessness never laid down in the book leviticus, deuteronomy, etc.? Also, by not carrying out the command to stone these categories of sinners, isn't that a sin in it of itself. A sin is to disobey God. God says stone the adultress. By not stoning the adultress you are therefore sinning! Therefore, according to the Gospel of John, Jesus promoted sin!!!

However, this whole story from the Gospel of John, where Jesus says to free the adultress and only if you never sinned you can cast the first stone is a fabricated story, a later interpolation into the Gospel of John.

BibleGateway

((The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53-8:11.))

If this proves anything, it's that the early "Christian" church had no moral qualms about adding or deleting things from the words of Jesus.

God did not "change His mind", Christ took on the punishment Himself. He took the place of the adulterers, etc. For example, when I was just learning to drive I hit a parked car (was not paying attention). My dad paid the costs of repairing it, so my dad took on the "punishment" for the "crime". In the same sense, we sinned and broke God's Law and deserve the punishment for that (regardless of how we feel is the severity of the punishment - God is the Lawmaker) but instead, as Christ, He took it upon Himself (He became sin for us).

As to your second part about John7:53. If the purpose was to deceive, then why would this be noted? Bible Gateway is a Christian Ministry.

However, the passage fits in with Christ and how He would have responded to a challenge such as this. Remember, this stoning was not being done by the government of Israel (the king or the Romans) but by the religious leaders, and the story illustrates that the whole crowd really needed to be stoned because they (we) are all sinners.

[Ilias Ahmad]

God did not "change His mind", Christ took on the punishment Himself.

Well the story never mentions that Jesus told the crowd to stone him in place of the woman instead. If you are talking about the crucifixion, according to Christian theology, it was at the moment of crucifixion (not before it), when Jesus supposedly died that he took upon him all the sins of the world. This is because before he decided to take upon the entire sins of the world, Jesus said: Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them (Matthew 5:17) Christians believe that Jesus fulfilled the law at his crucifixion, but before that he was teaching: Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)

As to your second part about John7:53. If the purpose was to deceive, then why would this be noted? Bible Gateway is a Christian Ministry.

Bible Gateway may be a Christian ministry, but its ministry is to give web-users access to all major translations of the Bible, including the New International Version. The New International Version is supposedly based on the most authentic manuscripts and ancient witnesses which do not have this passage. So the Christians cannot hide the facts anymore, they have no choice but to admit them, whereas apparently before they could get away with making up completely fictional passages and adding them to the Bible.