How did Jesus take our punishment?

[OnceConvinced]

Standard Christian doctrine is that Jesus paid the price for our sins. That he took the punishment that rightfully belonged to us on himself. This was his ultimate act of love for mankind. As a Christian I believed that completely and never even considered thinking about it critically.

But did Jesus really take our punishment?

The wages of sin is death. Sure, Jesus died, but then was resurrected three days later to live for eternity in Heaven at the right hand side of God. That is not what will happen to the sinner who doesn't repent. The sinner who doesn't repent will perish in hell. Jesus didn't perish in hell. The sinner will not be resurrected after they have perished. No eternal life. So how in that scenario is Jesus taking our punishment?

If you believe that sinners will go to hell and suffer for eternity you have an even bigger problem with the doctrine of Christ "paying the price". Is Jesus suffering in hell for all eternity right now? No he isn't. So how can anyone claim he has taken the punishment for us?

It seems to me that at the very most, Jesus only got a taste of that punishment.

So has Jesus really taken our punishment for us? If yes, how can we claim that to be the case?

[Goat]

Standard Christian doctrine is that Jesus paid the price for our sins. That he took the punishment that rightfully belonged to us on himself. This was his ultimate act of love for mankind. As a Christian I believed that completely and never even considered thinking about it critically.

But did Jesus really take our punishment?

The wages of sin is death. Sure, Jesus died, but then was resurrected three days later to live for eternity in Heaven at the right hand side of God. That is not what will happen to the sinner who doesn't repent. The sinner who doesn't repent will perish in hell. Jesus didn't perish in hell. The sinner will not be resurrected after they have perished. No eternal life. So how in that scenario is Jesus taking our punishment?

If you believe that sinners will go to hell and suffer for eternity you have an even bigger problem with the doctrine of Christ "paying the price". Is Jesus suffering in hell for all eternity right now? No he isn't. So how can anyone claim he has taken the punishment for us?

It seems to me that at the very most, Jesus only got a taste of that punishment.

So has Jesus really taken our punishment for us? If yes, how can we claim that to be the case?

The idea that someone else can preform a sacrifice or be sacrificed on others behalf goes against what sacrifice and repentance was about in Judaism. It's very Roman/Greek, but not very Jewish at all.

Repentance is the big thing. That means saying your sorry, and more importantly, changing your behavior as not to do that same error again.

The sacrifice was giving up something of value to you personally. While there was the sacrifice of animals in the Temple, there was also sacrifice of cereal, and of prayer. The most important part of the process was being sorry, and changing your behavior.

So, from the Jewish point of view, no, Jesus can not have taken our punishment for us. That is one of the reasons Jews do not accept Jesus.

[Easyrider]

The idea that someone else can preform a sacrifice or be sacrificed on others behalf goes against what sacrifice and repentance was about in Judaism. It's very Roman/Greek, but not very Jewish at all.

Nonsense. You have no problem at all trying to tell everyone the suffering servant for sins in Isaiah 53 is Israel (though most of the ancient rabbis say it's the Messiah).

[OnceConvinced]

The idea that someone else can preform a sacrifice or be sacrificed on others behalf goes against what sacrifice and repentance was about in Judaism. It's very Roman/Greek, but not very Jewish at all.

Nonsense. You have no problem at all trying to tell everyone the suffering servant for sins in Isaiah 53 is Israel (though most of the ancient rabbis say it's the Messiah).

I noticed someone voted yes on the poll. Was that you? If so, perhaps you'd like to explain why you believe Jesus took our punishment when clearly he didn't?

[Goat]

The idea that someone else can preform a sacrifice or be sacrificed on others behalf goes against what sacrifice and repentance was about in Judaism. It's very Roman/Greek, but not very Jewish at all.

Nonsense. You have no problem at all trying to tell everyone the suffering servant for sins in Isaiah 53 is Israel (though most of the ancient rabbis say it's the Messiah).

Well, just because you misrepresent what the "ancient rabbi's say' , or rather accept the lies some evangelistic web sites have, doesn't mean you are right.

Even Justin Martyr , in his writing up of his discussion with "Trypho the Jew" will admit the Jewish interpretation was that it was Israel.

You keep on losing that argument, cutting and pasting from discredited web sites, yet, you still keep up the denial of facts.

[twobitsmedia]

Standard Christian doctrine is that Jesus paid the price for our sins. That he took the punishment that rightfully belonged to us on himself. This was his ultimate act of love for mankind. As a Christian I believed that completely and never even considered thinking about it critically.

But did Jesus really take our punishment?

The wages of sin is death. Sure, Jesus died, but then was resurrected three days later to live for eternity in Heaven at the right hand side of God. That is not what will happen to the sinner who doesn't repent. The sinner who doesn't repent will perish in hell. Jesus didn't perish in hell. The sinner will not be resurrected after they have perished. No eternal life. So how in that scenario is Jesus taking our punishment?

If you believe that sinners will go to hell and suffer for eternity you have an even bigger problem with the doctrine of Christ "paying the price". Is Jesus suffering in hell for all eternity right now? No he isn't. So how can anyone claim he has taken the punishment for us?

It seems to me that at the very most, Jesus only got a taste of that punishment.

So has Jesus really taken our punishment for us? If yes, how can we claim that to be the case?

I am not sure what "doctrine" you are referring to. Jesus shed blood to redeem man. He did not take anyones punishment.

PS. Sorry, I messed up your poll by mistake, and this one I cannot edit. I voted yes, but should have voted no.

[OnceConvinced]

Standard Christian doctrine is that Jesus paid the price for our sins. That he took the punishment that rightfully belonged to us on himself. This was his ultimate act of love for mankind. As a Christian I believed that completely and never even considered thinking about it critically.

But did Jesus really take our punishment?

The wages of sin is death. Sure, Jesus died, but then was resurrected three days later to live for eternity in Heaven at the right hand side of God. That is not what will happen to the sinner who doesn't repent. The sinner who doesn't repent will perish in hell. Jesus didn't perish in hell. The sinner will not be resurrected after they have perished. No eternal life. So how in that scenario is Jesus taking our punishment?

If you believe that sinners will go to hell and suffer for eternity you have an even bigger problem with the doctrine of Christ "paying the price". Is Jesus suffering in hell for all eternity right now? No he isn't. So how can anyone claim he has taken the punishment for us?

It seems to me that at the very most, Jesus only got a taste of that punishment.

So has Jesus really taken our punishment for us? If yes, how can we claim that to be the case?

I am not sure what "doctrine" you are referring to. Jesus shed blood to redeem man. He did not take anyones punishment.

PS. Sorry, I messed up your poll by mistake, and this one I cannot edit. I voted yes, but should have voted no.

Damn, here was me thinking that finally someone was going to back up their "yes" vote.

I have no problem with it if you look at it from that point of view. Redeeming rather than taking punishment. I think that lines up better with the idea of blood sacrifices and is more supported by scripture.

However many Christians seem to see it as more than that, ie, Jesus taking the punishment which we rightfully deserved. Jesus dying in our place. In fact that seems like a common belief amongst Christians.

[Truth_Teller]

No, he didn´t. Every human-being who has lived on this planet will have to be the answerable for his deeds. If he/she committed sins then he/she will rightfully deserve a place in hell. Otherwise paradise is always an alternative by doing good deeds in this life itself.

That was my view, however. I hope no argument will be led out of it.

[Flail]

Jesus did not sacrifice himself for our sin...this is a concocted notion of the OT and Paul...not of Jesus....if Jesus was a God and knew that He was a God then what is the sacrifice?....God's feel no pain...God's know there is no risk....I know of alot of brave men who died for better causes as humans and not as Gods.

The Jesus story is symbolic fiction. The messages of Jesus and the parables are what is important as guides to living life without religion and which are generally ignored by Christianity.

[Flail]

Most Christianity teaches how to become a good religionist rather than a good citizen.