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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:43 am
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Is Islam A Front For Hatred?

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Is Islam just a front for hate?

I have seen, as with many theists, posts which quote mine the Koran, and I thought I would ask about the following quotes.

The question for this debate, Is Islam really just another front for religious hatred, If not, why not?

I submit the following to support my position that it is a hate based, intollerant religion:

Qur'an:9:5
"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:29
"Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Ishaq:325
"Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."

Qur'an:8:39
"Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Qur'an:8:39
"So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324
"He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Ishaq:587
"Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Qur'an:8:65
"O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

Bukhari:V4B53N386 "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: 'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'"

Qur'an:9:123
"Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."

Tabari IX:69
"Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."

Qur'an:47:4
"When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:38 pm
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chirp, chirp, chirp

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:29 pm
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The philosophy of Islam is that there is a war between Heaven and hell, the believers constitute the army of Allah, and the unbelievers are the army of satan. The believers regard Allah as their King, their only object of worship and devotion. The disbelievers are characterized by worship of false gods. Throughout time this holy war has manifested itself in various epic struggles. The most famous is the struggle between Moses and pharaoh. The Holy Quran dwells a lot on this struggle and what it really means.

Thus jihad, the holy war between the forces of Islam and the forces of disbelief, is a fundamental aspect of our religion. The great prophet Joshua was commissioned by God to totally exterminate the idolatrous tribes residing in the land of Canaan and cleanse that land and dedicate it purely to the worship of God. Similarly, Allah commanded the final prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa salam) to do the same in the land of Arabia, to purify it from shirk or idolatry and dedicate it to the worship of Allah alone.

We Muslims are waiting for the promised messiah to return to Earth when the whole world, rather than a certain region, will become the ultimate battleground. This is the philosophy of Islam. It may be repugnant to the unbelievers, but that is why they are unbelievers.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:39 pm
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Can anyone name any other currently active ideology or religion which is used as an excuse to violently suppress freedom of expression?

OK, maybe you can. But in Northern Europe?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:01 am
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Ilias Ahmad wrote:
We Muslims are waiting for the promised messiah to return to Earth when the whole world, rather than a certain region, will become the ultimate battleground. This is the philosophy of Islam. It may be repugnant to the unbelievers, but that is why they are unbelievers.


It's nice to know you think that you can read the minds of all non-believers. Sadly, you can't.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:44 am
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Ilias Ahmad wrote:
The philosophy of Islam is that there is a war between Heaven and hell, the believers constitute the army of Allah, and the unbelievers are the army of satan.


I have a better understanding of what you've been about in these posts, but I wholly reject the notion that someone is Satan, and I still say it comes from a hateful perspective.

Firstly I reject it because there ain't no Satan. I've got Islamists on these forums calling me Satan because I'm an atheist, I've got Christians emailing me calling Barak Obama Satan because they think he's Muslim, and somewhere in the middle they all call the Jews Satan. Its just too danged hard to keep up with who's Satan this week.

Most importantly, how many times have we seen religious folk declare something 'Satan' simply because they don't understand it? The demonizing and Hitlerizing of our enemies, or what we don't like has got to stop if we are to live peacefully with one another.

Evil as a concept does exist, but not like Islam, and most other religions would have us believe. If I must kill, and torture, and maim and harass my fellow man in order to follow any religion, then I want none of it, and I declare that religion violent and hateful.

History is full of religions that would have you murder and torture, and terrorize others in order to further its aims of oppressing just as many as possible under the thumb of ideas which have no basis in reality, nor in humanity.

Islam especially seems to breed a brand of hate that is unrelenting, unforgiving, and uncaring. In the name of Islam we are seeing an entire race of people come under atttack, all in the name of some dude whose murderous lust would have all free thinking people destroyed. This particular brand of religion is fast becoming a plague on all of humanity. Unless Islam is stopped, its spread will darken the entire of the human race.

Read the posts within these forums from Islamists, if they are the words of Islam, they should prove to you the oppression of women, the murderous intent, and the downright scary ideas Islam plants in the heads of people.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:14 pm
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joeyknuccione wrote:
Ilias Ahmad wrote:
The philosophy of Islam is that there is a war between Heaven and hell, the believers constitute the army of Allah, and the unbelievers are the army of satan.
I have a better understanding of what you've been about in these posts, but I wholly reject the notion that someone is Satan, and I still say it comes from a hateful perspective.Firstly I reject it because there ain't no Satan. I've got Islamists on these forums calling me Satan because I'm an atheist, I've got Christians emailing me calling Barak Obama Satan because they think he's Muslim, and somewhere in the middle they all call the Jews Satan. Its just too danged hard to keep up with who's Satan this week.Most importantly, how many times have we seen religious folk declare something 'Satan' simply because they don't understand it? The demonizing and Hitlerizing of our enemies, or what we don't like has got to stop if we are to live peacefully with one another. Evil as a concept does exist, but not like Islam, and most other religions would have us believe. If I must kill, and torture, and maim and harass my fellow man in order to follow any religion, then I want none of it, and I declare that religion violent and hateful.History is full of religions that would have you murder and torture, and terrorize others in order to further its aims of oppressing just as many as possible under the thumb of ideas which have no basis in reality, nor in humanity.Islam especially seems to breed a brand of hate that is unrelenting, unforgiving, and uncaring. In the name of Islam we are seeing an entire race of people come under atttack, all in the name of some dude whose murderous lust would have all free thinking people destroyed. This particular brand of religion is fast becoming a plague on all of humanity. Unless Islam is stopped, its spread will darken the entire of the human race.Read the posts within these forums from Islamists, if they are the words of Islam, they should prove to you the oppression of women, the murderous intent, and the downright scary ideas Islam plants in the heads of people.



well , islam dosent preach hatred, nor killing of innocents, nor subjugation of women, nor any other accusition , which is being claimed here.

i have seen many such out of context verses of the quran, which people put up, without understanding their true meaning.plz,the translation of the quran should always be read along with its explanation, so that we may be able to know the true context of the verses.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:39 pm
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umair wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:
Ilias Ahmad wrote:
The philosophy of Islam is that there is a war between Heaven and hell, the believers constitute the army of Allah, and the unbelievers are the army of satan.
I have a better understanding of what you've been about in these posts, but I wholly reject the notion that someone is Satan, and I still say it comes from a hateful perspective.Firstly I reject it because there ain't no Satan. I've got Islamists on these forums calling me Satan because I'm an atheist, I've got Christians emailing me calling Barak Obama Satan because they think he's Muslim, and somewhere in the middle they all call the Jews Satan. Its just too danged hard to keep up with who's Satan this week.Most importantly, how many times have we seen religious folk declare something 'Satan' simply because they don't understand it? The demonizing and Hitlerizing of our enemies, or what we don't like has got to stop if we are to live peacefully with one another. Evil as a concept does exist, but not like Islam, and most other religions would have us believe. If I must kill, and torture, and maim and harass my fellow man in order to follow any religion, then I want none of it, and I declare that religion violent and hateful.History is full of religions that would have you murder and torture, and terrorize others in order to further its aims of oppressing just as many as possible under the thumb of ideas which have no basis in reality, nor in humanity.Islam especially seems to breed a brand of hate that is unrelenting, unforgiving, and uncaring. In the name of Islam we are seeing an entire race of people come under atttack, all in the name of some dude whose murderous lust would have all free thinking people destroyed. This particular brand of religion is fast becoming a plague on all of humanity. Unless Islam is stopped, its spread will darken the entire of the human race.Read the posts within these forums from Islamists, if they are the words of Islam, they should prove to you the oppression of women, the murderous intent, and the downright scary ideas Islam plants in the heads of people.



well , islam dosent preach hatred, nor killing of innocents, nor subjugation of women, nor any other accusition , which is being claimed here.

i have seen many such out of context verses of the quran, which people put up, without understanding their true meaning.plz,the translation of the quran should always be read along with its explanation, so that we may be able to know the true context of the verses.


Well, Islam might not. However, there are a lot Muslims that use the Koran to justify their particular piece of injustice.

While the use of various holy scriptures to justify bad actions is certainly not unique to Islam, it seems to be more prevalent in the Muslim community right now.
What are the factors do you attribute this to? It is sociological, economic, something else, or a combination of factors?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:42 pm
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umair wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:
Ilias Ahmad wrote:
The philosophy of Islam is that there is a war between Heaven and hell, the believers constitute the army of Allah, and the unbelievers are the army of satan.
I have a better understanding of what you've been about in these posts, but I wholly reject the notion that someone is Satan, and I still say it comes from a hateful perspective.Firstly I reject it because there ain't no Satan. I've got Islamists on these forums calling me Satan because I'm an atheist, I've got Christians emailing me calling Barak Obama Satan because they think he's Muslim, and somewhere in the middle they all call the Jews Satan. Its just too danged hard to keep up with who's Satan this week.Most importantly, how many times have we seen religious folk declare something 'Satan' simply because they don't understand it? The demonizing and Hitlerizing of our enemies, or what we don't like has got to stop if we are to live peacefully with one another. Evil as a concept does exist, but not like Islam, and most other religions would have us believe. If I must kill, and torture, and maim and harass my fellow man in order to follow any religion, then I want none of it, and I declare that religion violent and hateful.History is full of religions that would have you murder and torture, and terrorize others in order to further its aims of oppressing just as many as possible under the thumb of ideas which have no basis in reality, nor in humanity.Islam especially seems to breed a brand of hate that is unrelenting, unforgiving, and uncaring. In the name of Islam we are seeing an entire race of people come under atttack, all in the name of some dude whose murderous lust would have all free thinking people destroyed. This particular brand of religion is fast becoming a plague on all of humanity. Unless Islam is stopped, its spread will darken the entire of the human race.Read the posts within these forums from Islamists, if they are the words of Islam, they should prove to you the oppression of women, the murderous intent, and the downright scary ideas Islam plants in the heads of people.



well , islam dosent preach hatred, nor killing of innocents, nor subjugation of women, nor any other accusition , which is being claimed here.

i have seen many such out of context verses of the quran, which people put up, without understanding their true meaning.plz,the translation of the quran should always be read along with its explanation, so that we may be able to know the true context of the verses.


Well, Islam might not. However, there are a lot Muslims that use the Koran to justify their particular piece of injustice.

While the use of various holy scriptures to justify bad actions is certainly not unique to Islam, it seems to be more prevalent in the Muslim community right now.
What are the factors do you attribute this to? It is sociological, economic, something else, or a combination of factors?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:03 pm
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umair wrote:
Quote:

well , islam dosent preach hatred, nor killing of innocents, nor subjugation of women, nor any other accusition , which is being claimed here.


Did you even read the parts of the Koran I placed in my OP?

To just say, nah-ah, is not proof.

Quote:

i have seen many such out of context verses of the quran, which people put up, without understanding their true meaning.plz,the translation of the quran should always be read along with its explanation, so that we may be able to know the true context of the verses.


I can read dude, I read pretty well. You wish to reconfigure what is clearly stated, and I'm calling you on it. Do you deny that what I have quoted is correct? Or are you saying these things actually mean the opposite? You're trying to have it both ways - quotes which seem cool, and are great ideas are true, but quotes that don't have been mistaken. How are these quotes to be understood then? Hang on, lemme grab my beer...

Ok, go.

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