Is Lucifer the same as Satan?

[melodious]

Should Lucifer the light-bearer be equated with Satan the Adversary, or is this parallel an orthodox Christian theological and mythological fallacy?

[Goat]

Should Lucifer the light-bearer be equated with Satan the Adversary, or is this parallel an orthodox Christian theological and mythological fallacy?

From the Jewish perspective, absolutely not. Heli (translated to Lucifer in Latin), was a 'God' of the Phoenician religion. The Isaiah passage was mocking Nebuchadnezzar by comparing him with a false and fallen God.

[melodious]

Thank you for your response, goat. It is much appreciated. I will post later with more details on my view of Lucifer.

In the spirit of gnosis - M

[onefaith]

Christians believe that Lucifer was an angel, and he "fell". Then he became Satan.

That's the simplest way to put it

[Goat]

Christians believe that Lucifer was an angel, and he "fell". Then he became Satan.

That's the simplest way to put it

Have you studied the passage that 'lucifer' is mentioned, and looked at what is says in context, and with the Hebrew?

The Lucifer that is in Isaiah has nothing to do with the accusor (shatian). helel was a pheoncian God of the morning. It is actually being copied almost verbatium from
an ancient Canaanite scripture talking about Hele's son Sharer

How hast thou fallen from heaven, Helel's son Shaher!
Thou didst say in thy heart, I will ascend to Heaven.
Above the circumpolar stars I will raise my throne
And I will dwell on the Mount of Council in the back of the North
I will mount on the back of a cloud.
I will be like unto Elyon.

It has nothing to with 'Satan' what so ever in context.

I have an interesting challenge for you if you are up to it. Look at all the phrases in the Bible (both new and old testament), and look at ever place 'satan' is mentioned in context. Then, compare all the descriptions and beliefs about what you have been told about Satan, and compare it with what the Bible actually says.

A lot of what Christians believe about Satan is not in the Bible, and has more to do with either Greek mythology,or Dante's Divine comedy than the bible.

[melodious]

Christians believe that Lucifer was an angel, and he "fell". Then he became Satan.

That's the simplest way to put it

You've gotta love the linear thinking of the Western mind. However, I prefer to obeserve thing's more in cycles, like the Eastern mind, for this is based on a simple observation of Nature. I'm going through this on another thread about Revelation, where my view is that these things are more collective and internal, which in turn may affect the individual and external, but is not individual and external alone - i.e. the second coming of the Christ is not one person, and the same goes for the anti-Christ. These phenomena - involution (anti-Christ) and evolution (Christ) are constantly happening all the time.

This is also how I view Lucifer: As the Light in the Darkness, and as the Gospel of the Beloved (John) states, "darkness did not master it." There is a qabalistic wisdom that teaches about the 4 cardinal archangels of the sacred circle (what in qabala is known as Da'at, the Abyss, or astral psyche/microcosm - the universe within). According to this teaching, the 4 archangels (Raphael, Gabriel, Michael, and Uriel) are the same consciousness-force as the 4 crowned princes of hell (Lucifer, Leviathan, Satan, Beliel). As Tau Malachi writes in Gnosis of the Cosmic Christ - "Thus, these arch-demons are the dark side of the cosmic forces the archangels personify... The difference between angels and demons lies in their intention and the result that follows... at some point in the process of self-realization, we must confront and transform our fears and the darkness that is in us."

Also Malachi writes in the glossary of "Cosmic Christ" - "Lucifer: Light-bearer; the archdemon of the eastern quarter of the circle; also a gnostic title of the Christos negating death and darkness." Hence, Lucifer's titles of "Morning Star" and "Son (or Sun) of the Dawn." Lucifer, essentially, represents the enlightened soul of the initiate rising out of the darkness (ignorance) of the Abyss (psyche).

Where did I begin, again... the difference in the Eastern and Western mind? East... circles... rising sun...

In the spirit of gnosis - M

P.S. the ancient hieroglyph for water; the holy mountains of the Goddess from which the sun is born; the aeon of Horus/Aquarius, the Human One; sons of Seth????? These all correspond to the letter 'M,' and resonate in the words - Mother, Maiden, Matter (notice the things we are discovering about matter through quantum physics), Metal, Magick, Mystic, Melody, Marriage, Michael (the name of the archangel that is the flipside consciousnss-force of Satan on the Sacred Circle of Magick and the name of the mythical son of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene...

[Lorens]

Dear Friends, following is the explanation about this question from the mouth of our Lord and Heavenly Father Jesus Christ Himself, Who in the period of 24 years was speaking to the inner ear of one of His greatest prophets of all time, namely Jakob Lorber:

Satana’s nature and name

You have often heard and read that human beings give this evil spirit and his cohorts, commonly called “devils,� all kinds of names. I shall explain to you why and whence this arch evil spirit received all the different names, and who the devils actually are.

Satana, Satan, Leviathan, Beelzebub, Gog, Magog, the Serpent, the Dragon, the Animal of the Abyss, Lucifer, and many more names like this indicate him. Lucifer, or “Bearer of Light,� was his original name. Satana meant as much as “the Antipole of the Divinity.� This spirit, as Satana, faced the divinity as a wife her husband. The divinity would have propagated into his being her countless eternal ideas, so that they might have matured in his concentrated light. And through this a creation of beings would have come forth in the highest clarity from the light of this spirit. All infinity would have been continually more and more populated from out of this light. In an infinite realm there is room for the infinite, and eternities could fill this realm that never could become overcrowded.
But since this spirit had such a high designation, to be a second god next to Me, he had to pass, in accordance with his designation, the test of freedom. And as you know, he did not pass, because he wanted to rise above the divinity.
It was over a matter of rank that this spirit opposed the divinity. Since this spirit could never be allowed to rule, he became enraged and conceived the intention of annihilating the divinity. He would not have lacked the power for such a deed had not the divinity, in her eternal wisdom, severely imprisoned this mutineer and all his parts at the proper time. It may seem amazing that such power existed in this spirit as to enable him to resist the eternal divinity successfully. But the matter will be more readily understood when you consider that the divinity placed in this spirit, a complete second “I,� which, although created in time, was placed opposite the divinity with equal power in all realms of infinity.
This spirit, into which the divinity herself had concentrated her light, was propagated throughout the whole of infinity. That is why it would have been possible for him to seize and eliminate the divinity everywhere. Delusions of power awoke in him great vanity and self complacency in his light and in his infinite sublimity and power. He thereby forgot his Creator, the eternal divinity, and became inflamed in his impudence and hardened himself. At this point the divinity seized his specific being, formed out of him celestial bodies throughout the whole of infinity, and eventually shackled his spirit in the most restrictive manner, and banished him to the depths of the Earth.
In this position, this spirit is no longer Satana but Satan, because he freed himself from the eternal divine order. That means having the same pole as the divinity. You are aware of the fact that the same poles repel each other. Herein lies the reason that this being is now the farthest and the most opposite from the divinity.
The fettered spirit, divested of his soul, promised several times to better himself if he were permitted certain things. He could have succeeded, since he is now separated from all his evil soul specifica. He laid down the condition that he be divinely worshiped for a period of time. He promised that, should he no longer find any pleasure in this veneration, he would turn back and become a pure spirit. His wish was granted. Heathendom, which is almost as old as humankind, testifies to this situation. On Earth, the Lord reserved for Himself only a small nation of people. All others might, without detriment to their free will, comply unpunished with this spirit’s wish. Under these circumstances, diverse names emerged for this being, revered as god.
Since this spirit was not satisfied with anything, and interfered ever more with the divine order, he was taken again into more severe detention. After he had, at that time, recruited and groomed a multitude of like minded spirits from the human race, he acted and continues to act through these, his servants. A diabolus or devil is none other than a spirit that has grown up and been educated in Satan’s school.

It should not be interpreted thereby that these spirits were, in reality, educated in a special school of Satan. They developed by themselves to this level through the particular specifica which they took into themselves voluntarily out of the sphere of this spirit. And, because these spirits also have arch evil within them, that is why they are called “devils.� Although they are “students of Satan,� there is still a vast difference between Satan and them, because only their souls are evil, their spirits remaining pure, even though severely incarcerated, whilst the spirit of Satan is the actual evil. It can therefore happen that all devils can be saved before Satan, in his final fall, attains the fullest of maturity in evil.'

as received by Jakob Lorber and written in his book 'Earth and Moon - 56'; this whole book can be read and dowloaded from www.j-lorber.com)

Peace and joy of our Lord be with you all

Lorens

[Lorens]

Should Lucifer the light-bearer be equated with Satan the Adversary, or is this parallel an orthodox Christian theological and mythological fallacy?

Following is another beautiful revelation about this quite important issue, this time our Lord spoke through the mouth of one of his humble maid-servants, namely, Bertha Dudde, who in duration of almost 40 years was daily receiving from His mouth Divine messages of love:

B.D. 5612
28.2.1953

First created being…. Light bearer…. Apostasy from God….

Your human intellect is only able to understand profound truth to a certain degree, because pure spirituality is only spiritually explainable. This explanation will be accepted by the spirit within you and indeed also passed on via the soul to the intellect, but the intellect is still too earthly minded and therefore cannot delve so deeply into spiritual knowledge to understand everything. Nevertheless, My spirit expresses itself through the spiritual spark within you, and anyone who has love will also understand the meaning of what I say to him:

My creative will was immense, My strength inexhaustible, and I found My bliss in the implementation of My thoughts and plans. And this bliss wanted to express itself, My love wanted to give itself, I wanted another being beside Me to also enjoy what made Me indescribably happy. I experienced My solitude as a lack which I could change any time if I wanted to.... And I wanted to re-discover Myself in a being that should be closely united with Me, which I wanted to shape as a mirror of Myself, as My own image, to be able to bestow it with unlimited bliss and thereby increase My bliss too. I wanted to create such a being and this will sufficed, because My will was strength and always proceeded with love and wisdom. The entity I externalised from within Myself was indeed My image yet it could not see Me, had it been able to see Me it would have ceased to exist due to its beatitude, since no being could endure to behold Me. For every being, even the most perfect image of Myself, is always just a product of My strength of love, whereas I Am the strength of love Myself and enlighten everything with incomparable intensity but, as a result, I could not be endured by the being I had externalised. Yet by creating this being I had a vessel into which the strength of My love could flow continually, and thus it also received My creative will, My strength, My wisdom and My love beyond measure with this constant influx of strength from Me. As a result, it was now able to experience the same bliss, it was able to use its strength in accordance with its own will, it could be creatively active for its own pleasure and thus constantly increase My bliss, because it was My strength which enabled the being to do so and I took pleasure in its happiness….

And now countless other beings of the same nature emerged from this being.... They all were children of My love in radiating light, in utmost perfection, because from the image I created of Myself and My infinite love could only ever emerge utmost perfection, because we shared the same will. Both our love found itself again in the created beings, because nothing imperfect existed as long as My will and My love worked through this first created being. It was an enlightened world of spirits, there were a great number of originally created spirits…. The strength from Me flowed unrestricted to the being which I had chosen for Myself as the bearer of light and strength…. And the entity itself was more than blissfully happy…. Yet I wanted to increase this bliss even more; I did not want it to be tied to My will but it should be active of its own will which…. if the being was perfect and remained so.…was My will. For the being, having been created by Me, was incapable of having any other will. But I wanted it to be able to act independently.... because the only characteristic of a divine being is that love is so powerful within itself that it is the decisive factor for the same direction of will as mine. I wanted to receive this love from My first created being which, however, was intended to result in its ultimate perfection at the same time, so that it was no longer active as a created being in accordance with My will but should enjoy unlimited bliss by merging with My will for love of Me….

But in order to pass this test of love and will it had to have complete freedom of will. It did not see Me but it recognised Me because it was enlightened…. However, it saw the countless beings created by its will, and it felt itself as their creator in spite of knowing that it had received its strength from Me…. And the entity was envious of My strength.... Although it was visible to the beings it had created, it was nevertheless conscious of its origin from Me, but it claimed the right to rule these beings for itself by presenting itself to them as the source of strength, as the only power able to create…. It more than less denied to love Me in order to rule.... You humans cannot understand the process by which a self-aware being could transgress into completely wrong reasoning but this is explained by free will which, in order to become active, must also be able but does not have to make a negative choice.

The bearer of light and strength saw on the one side the evidence of strength conveyed through him, yet he did not see the source of strength itself. Thus he declared himself ruler over his created spirits and also tried to portray Me as non-existent to them. He tried to transfer his now opposing will on to them…. And now the moment of decision, of proving their perfection, also came for the beings who had been created by the bearer of light with the use of My strength…. My strength was inherent in all these beings, they were fully enlightened and aglow with love for Me, Whom they could not see but nevertheless recognise. But they also loved their creator, because the strength that had created them was love which had emanated from the first created being and enabled it to create. This love now had to make a choice, and it divided itself….

Terrible confusion occurred amongst the spirits who felt urged to make a decision. But…. since My strength of love was effectively light…. it was understandable that the urge towards the primary source of strength was stronger in many beings, that their love diminished for the one who separated from Me and pushed towards Me with increased force…. For the light within them was the realisation that I was Eternal Love. Every being had this knowledge indeed, but it also had free will which did not depend on knowledge, or it would not have been free. And the spiritual world divided itself…. The externalised being had its followers just as I had Mine, even though I was not visible. But the effect of My strength was so powerful that many beings turned away from the one who wanted to oppose Me…. Their will remained in the right direction, whereas the bearer of light and his followers directed their will wrongly, thus they volitionally separated from Me and this caused their fall into the abyss….

Thus the light bearer, the fully illuminated being externalised by Me, became My adversary, whereas everything that had emerged from him, that was created by both our love, partly turned towards Me and partly towards him, depending on the glow of love by which it was permeated. As soon as the bearer of light separated from Me the beings experienced an undefined desire for a definite pole. Free will began to unfold itself.... neither I nor My adversary influenced them forcefully, they were merely exposed to both our emanation of strength which wanted to gain every being for itself. The flow of My strength was pure love and affected the beings so intensely that they recognised Me without seeing Me, but they could also recognise the first created beings’ change of will. However, because they could see this entity many followed it, i.e. they subordinated themselves to its will and thus distanced themselves from Me. Yet other originally created beings felt themselves as My children and voluntarily remained loyal to Me, only they were far less in number. These were the first created beings who arose from My light bearer’s most blissful creative will and My immense influx of strength of love. And this strength of love was inherent in these beings too and persistently pushed them towards Me, for they recognised their creator’s present will as wrong and therefore turned away from him. The other beings could have come to this realisation too yet they blindly followed the one they could see, and their will was respected and in no way influenced by Me, because this decision of will had to take place in order to shape the created beings to independent perfection. The being which left Me drew a large number of followers into the abyss, for to distance oneself from Me means to strive towards the abyss, to aim towards a completely opposite state, which thus signifies darkness and weakness, loss of knowledge and strength. Whereas My children blissfully remained in the most radiant light and immense strength, in beatitude.

After the fall of Lucifer, the light bearer, his strength was defeated.... He could no longer actively create and shape although I did not withdraw the strength from him because he was My living creation. His power and strength rested in his followers, whom he now dominated as prince of darkness. But they are also the products of My love which I will not leave to My adversary forever. As long as these beings still share his will they belong to him; but as soon as I succeed in turning their will towards Me he has lost them, and thus his strength diminishes at the same rate as I release his prisoners from his control which, however, always presupposes the being’s free will.

And this is the purpose of My eternal plan of Salvation, which is eagerly and most lovingly supported by all inhabitants of the kingdom of light, by My angels and archangels, for they all are My helpers who endeavour to bring bliss again to their fallen brothers, who once voluntarily threw it away…. And this work of liberation will succeed, even if it takes an infinitely long time before the last once-fallen spirit returns to Me, until even the first created being that came forth from My love draws closer to Me again in its longing for My love…. until this, too, repentantly returns to the Father’s house, which it once left voluntarily…. Amen


Full knowledge of this was never before revealed to the manking, but now is revealed because END is near, and without proper understanding of the beginning, no correct idea can be conceived about the approaching END... i.e. it will be hard to detect in it our Heavenly Fathers immense love and wisdom!

further revelations about this question can be found at www.wordofgod.de , in booklet nr. 6

Peace of our Lord and Father be with you all

Lorens

[melodious]

You have often heard and read that human beings give this evil spirit and his cohorts, commonly called “devils,� all kinds of names. I shall explain to you why and whence this arch evil spirit received all the different names, and who the devils actually are.
Satana, Satan, Leviathan, Beelzebub, Gog, Magog, the Serpent, the Dragon, the Animal of the Abyss, Lucifer...

You know, if you take the name Satana and add a 'n' between the first 'a' and 't' you have Santana. I'm thinkng there's a connection, Lorens. Because when I listen to Santana, even though his music is cloaked in new age Christian spiritualisms, I feel like being "dirty." It really evokes the naughty nature in me, you know, with all that lascivious Latino conga playing and all. I'm thinking you would have to be a really strong Christian to be able to overcome the temptations of Santana music. Perhaps we should add Santana to the list too.

M

[otseng]

Should Lucifer the light-bearer be equated with Satan the Adversary, or is this parallel an orthodox Christian theological and mythological fallacy?

Following is another beautiful revelation about this quite important issue, this time our Lord spoke through the mouth of one of his humble maid-servants, namely, Bertha Dudde, who in duration of almost 40 years was daily receiving from His mouth Divine messages of love:

Moderator note:

I don't really see how what you put down was very relevant to the OP. In fact, it seemed more like just trying to post a link. In the future, please try to address the OP and avoid simply linking to other sites. Thanks.