Morality of Suicide

[Andre_5772]

For quite some time, I have been of the opinion that suicide is always immoral. This intuition arises out of my awe at how complicated and delicate the human body is, yet how elegantly all these systems work together, for the most part.

However I read something the other day which was to the effect of, "Life is for learning and growing, not for suffering through." I have to admit that this makes a lot of sense to me, too. But this leads to the possibility that at times suicide is justified. Specifically, when one can reasonably expect an excess of suffering in the future, and this condition will prevent any significant growth as a person, contribution to society, or whatever that person finds meaningful.

When I thought about this further, I realized that I probably wouldn't begrudge someone who committed suicide, provided they had rationally come to the conclusion that these criteria were satisfied. While I would never advise suicide, I think my view has changed to the point where I can accept it in certain circumstances without condemning it. I'm wondering what others think about the morality of suicide. Is it on par with murder because it ends a human life? Or is it a different act because rational beings are free to choose death for themselves although not for others?

[Fallibleone]

Well, as an atheist you are not going to like my response, but you just have to trust God. No matter what the situation is.

I guess that I would find it hard to trust in a being who feels it would be better for my children to watch me slowly and painfully deteriorate into a senseless vegetable who needs to be fed through a tube than to have to come to terms with my absence, but remember me as a functioning human being who knew who they were.

I have relatives who have been through what you have described and I have not remembered them by how they died but rather how they lived. They are just as much in Heaven as the ones that died differently, so I still have them to look forward to.

That's your personal experience. Others have different experiences. That you managed to remember them for how they lived is a fortunate outcome from you, but it does not take away from the fact (assuming that God exists, which I obviously contest) that God saw fit to put you through it in the first place...and you're supposed to trust this monster. I am going to make a leap here and suggest that you believe that we cannot understand the mind of God, being mere mortals, and that this would be an argument for trusting in him even though he might allow things to happen which we see as 'bad'. I don't buy this at all. What sort of a being knows that we don't understand the reason why something is happening but still puts us through it, merely saying 'I know this seems bad, I know you're in excruciating physical and mental pain which I, an all-powerful force, am deliberately inflicting on you, but trust me. It'll turn out fine'? If we can't hope to understand the mind of God, how do we even know that he's doing it for our own 'good'? Personally I would not hang about if God picked me out for a lingering death.

What is your opinion on what happens to suicides when they die?

[McCulloch]

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but many people are not aware that in most places, suicide is significantly more common than murder.

[ChristianGuy]

Well, as an atheist you are not going to like my response, but you just have to trust God. No matter what the situation is.

I guess that I would find it hard to trust in a being who feels it would be better for my children to watch me slowly and painfully deteriorate into a senseless vegetable who needs to be fed through a tube than to have to come to terms with my absence, but remember me as a functioning human being who knew who they were.

I have relatives who have been through what you have described and I have not remembered them by how they died but rather how they lived. They are just as much in Heaven as the ones that died differently, so I still have them to look forward to.

That's your personal experience. Others have different experiences. That you managed to remember them for how they lived is a fortunate outcome from you, but it does not take away from the fact (assuming that God exists, which I obviously contest) that God saw fit to put you through it in the first place...and you're supposed to trust this monster. I am going to make a leap here and suggest that you believe that we cannot understand the mind of God, being mere mortals, and that this would be an argument for trusting in him even though he might allow things to happen which we see as 'bad'. I don't buy this at all. What sort of a being knows that we don't understand the reason why something is happening but still puts us through it, merely saying 'I know this seems bad, I know you're in excruciating physical and mental pain which I, an all-powerful force, am deliberately inflicting on you, but trust me. It'll turn out fine'? If we can't hope to understand the mind of God, how do we even know that he's doing it for our own 'good'? Personally I would not hang about if God picked me out for a lingering death.

What is your opinion on what happens to suicides when they die?

You should read the Book of Job. Here you will find a man who would have had reason for suicide.

As for my belief on suicide... many believe that suicide is an automatic sentence to an eternity in Hell. I disagree. If you are Christian (and I mean a "saved one") then you will not go to Hell for commiting suicide. I find it hard to believe, however, that any true Christian would want to commit suicide.

[realthinker]

I find it hard to believe, however, that any true Christian would want to commit suicide.

Yeah, because Christianity rules out all of those contributing mental issues, like depression, paranoia, anxiety, schizophrenia. And also all of those social issues like drug abuse, homelessness, domestic violence, I'm guessing.

[Fallibleone]

Well, as an atheist you are not going to like my response, but you just have to trust God. No matter what the situation is.

I guess that I would find it hard to trust in a being who feels it would be better for my children to watch me slowly and painfully deteriorate into a senseless vegetable who needs to be fed through a tube than to have to come to terms with my absence, but remember me as a functioning human being who knew who they were.

I have relatives who have been through what you have described and I have not remembered them by how they died but rather how they lived. They are just as much in Heaven as the ones that died differently, so I still have them to look forward to.

That's your personal experience. Others have different experiences. That you managed to remember them for how they lived is a fortunate outcome from you, but it does not take away from the fact (assuming that God exists, which I obviously contest) that God saw fit to put you through it in the first place...and you're supposed to trust this monster. I am going to make a leap here and suggest that you believe that we cannot understand the mind of God, being mere mortals, and that this would be an argument for trusting in him even though he might allow things to happen which we see as 'bad'. I don't buy this at all. What sort of a being knows that we don't understand the reason why something is happening but still puts us through it, merely saying 'I know this seems bad, I know you're in excruciating physical and mental pain which I, an all-powerful force, am deliberately inflicting on you, but trust me. It'll turn out fine'? If we can't hope to understand the mind of God, how do we even know that he's doing it for our own 'good'? Personally I would not hang about if God picked me out for a lingering death.

What is your opinion on what happens to suicides when they die?

You should read the Book of Job. Here you will find a man who would have had reason for suicide.

As for my belief on suicide... many believe that suicide is an automatic sentence to an eternity in Hell. I disagree. If you are Christian (and I mean a "saved one") then you will not go to Hell for commiting suicide. I find it hard to believe, however, that any true Christian would want to commit suicide.

Yes, poor Job, and what an utter monster he had to deal with. Again, what sort of a being is this?

So it is OK for you to kill, a contradiction of the Commandment, as long as you're a Christian.

Define 'true Christian'.

[ChristianGuy]

I find it hard to believe, however, that any true Christian would want to commit suicide.

Yeah, because Christianity rules out all of those contributing mental issues, like depression, paranoia, anxiety, schizophrenia. And also all of those social issues like drug abuse, homelessness, domestic violence, I'm guessing.

Maybe you are missing my point. I clearly stated that I do not believe that you are made a non-Christian by commiting suicide. I did say that I don't know why a Christian would want to commit suicide. So if you are a Christian with one of these problems (schizophrenia) and you commit suicide, you are not sentenced to Hell. You will, however, be judged for it. Why don't we try reading in context?

[ChristianGuy]

Fallibleone:

No. It is not okay to kill (murder) under any circumstance. If you are truly saced, however, then a specific sin is not going to sentence you to Hell. If you are not covered by the blood of Jesus, I believe (not to sound righteous, but only to state what the Bible says) that you are going to go to Hell. I am not judging anyone on this site by stating that. It is simply the scripture.

[Goat]

Fallibleone:

No. It is not okay to kill (murder) under any circumstance. If you are truly saced, however, then a specific sin is not going to sentence you to Hell. If you are not covered by the blood of Jesus, I believe (not to sound righteous, but only to state what the Bible says) that you are going to go to Hell. I am not judging anyone on this site by stating that. It is simply the scripture.

Where in the bible does it say if you don't believe you are going to hell?

I can point out where all men are save 'especially the believers'. (1 timothy 4:10)..

Do you really think that New Testament teaches only Christians are saved?

[Fallibleone]

Fallibleone:

No. It is not okay to kill (murder) under any circumstance. If you are truly saced, however, then a specific sin is not going to sentence you to Hell. If you are not covered by the blood of Jesus, I believe (not to sound righteous, but only to state what the Bible says) that you are going to go to Hell. I am not judging anyone on this site by stating that. It is simply the scripture.

Surely if it was not OK, it would prevent you from getting into Heaven. What you seem to be saying is that you can commit sins and still go to Heaven - if you are a 'true Christian'.

Please define 'true Christian'.

I still can't fathom how you can trust in a being who allows the sin of killing, about which he had unequivocally stated 'thou shalt not', as long as you believe in him. Does that not sound a teensy bit egotistical to you? To me, this does not appear to be a creature which has our best interests at heart. Because, you see, as I have described elsewhere, belief is not something I have any choice about. I could live my life as a morally spotless individual and nevertheless find myself in Hell, because of a stipulation which I have no control over, and which he knows I have no control over - because he is omniscient.

You could commit suicide and get into Heaven no problem, but if I do it, I'm goin down. Since I'm damned anyway because of your god's hissy fit about believing in him in order to get to Heaven, I might as well do it if I want to. I'm never going to make the grade.

[ChristianGuy]

Everyone commits sins. Christians and non-christians alike. I don't believe that that is a deciding factor in going to Heaven or Hell.

Romans 3:23

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

I sin and I'm a Christian. I do not make a life style of sin and I feel guilty when I do sin. I believe that if you ask for forgivness for those sins then God will forgive you for them.

1 John 1:19

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."


I previously stated that I have not Damned anyone by making that remark, but I mearly state what the Bible said. Why do you feel that you can never be saved. That is not in the Bible that I read.

Romans 10:8-11

8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

I'm not trying to "preach" to you, but I just want to know why you think that you will never "make the grade" ?