The lost tomb of Jesus

[PetriFB]

http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/TheLo ... Jesus.html

We live in time, whereat many Bible's prophecies are filling. We also live in time, which is very near Yeshua's (Jesus) second coming. For this reason many people attacks with all power of evil against the Bible's message and these attacks will increase. These canting attacks also use modern technology as "help" in order to spread their lies. But in vain the world try to invalidate depiction of the Bible from Yeshua the Messiah. God has built His evidences about His word to everlasting foundation, which will never fall, but will stand an be valid for ever. One attack against word of God is a document film The Lost Tomb of Jesus (director James Cameron) and book The Jesus Family Tomb (written Simcha Jacobovici and Charles Pellegrino). Documentary and book tell about the same subject "The Jesus Family Tomb". But when we research more closer this sensation, so we notice it is only a sensation, filled with assumptions and spurious fake, which try to cancel description of the Bible from Jesus.


Behind the link can be new aspects and proves relating to this document to those who don't believe the message of the Bible!

[Cathar1950]

We live in time, whereat many Bible's prophecies are filling. We also live in time, which is very near Yeshua's (Jesus) second coming.

People have been saying that for centuries. What is it that makes the current crop of this kind of claim any more valid than the scores of other failed claims?

There are a number of reasons for coming to the conclusion that Jesus' return is imminent. Not all of them are from the Bible. Somebody asked Jesus how folks would know and he said that the season of things or the climate of the times would be the biggest clue.

Actually the unknown writer of Mark has Jesus saying something about sign which I am pretty sure the author meant something closer to his time.
I agree I am sure there are more reasons you think Christ is coming or returning that are not in the Bible.

One of the biggest clues Jesus said would be a massive increase in violence; like no other time in recorded history. It's true enough. Murder and crimes of violence are greater than ever before. Take for instance Central Park in New York City. As recently as the beginning of the twentieth century, violent crime did not affect those who enjoyed the park. NY City muggings are so common today that they've become a joke, not to mention those of other cities such as L.A., Chicago, etc. The entire nation of Italy is known no longer for its beauty and art, but for its thievery and muggings. I could go on and on, but you should have the picture. Never before has such violence ruled the earth. Not only is it great, but we've become used to it. Read the history books; never before has it been this way.


Another clue is a prophesied increase in pollution. Don't need to quote facts and figures here as we all know the problem is due to industrial development which never happened until the modern age. The ancients couldn't even conceive of such a thing, yet here we are enjoying the poisonous soup we live in.

Mack beat me to is but I would like to see the actual so-called prophesies and how they are related to your claims. I don’t recall anything on pollution which seems odd as you take such a literal interpretation of things you think have happened...
After reading the so-called prophesies about Jesus the NT writers used it hardly seems likely you are going to get it right on reading them now. Historically they have been wrong at reading the signs.

Yet another ancient prophecy (and this is one not limited to the Bible) is that there would be signs and wonders in the heavens. We have become so accustomed to space flight and observation of astronomical wonders on other planets that we've missed this subtle, yet amazingly important clue. In the days of the ancients, such things happened once every few centuries. Today they are as common as a sunrise.

This is the same signs the unknown author of Mark was talking about so it looks like you are using one passage to say a number of different things without showing us any relevance or connection to what was actually written.
Of course with all the pollution it is hard to see the sign as night, not like it use to be.

The establishment of the modern state of Israel was predicted thousands of years ago. Never before has such a thing happened where a nation and people was totally destroyed and scattered and then returned to the actual place where it started complete with the ancient language, customs, religion, even the indigenous dogs which were once thought to be extinct.

I would like to see theses and look at them in context.

There are dozens and scores of other ancient prophecies including non-Biblical ones which predicted that the ancient gods would rise again. True enough. All the old pagan rites and religions are rising again as if from the very grave. Whether you believe these religions or not, you ought to know that they are becoming important all over again. That too has never happened.

We are living in the most interesting and perilous days of all human history. Nothing like these times has EVER happened before. The wise man will take note. The fool will bury his head in the sand and pretend that nothing has changed (as satellites and jet aircraft whizz overhead, as violence sweeps through his neighborhood and as the gospel and all manner of satanic and pagan religions sweep across the planet).

The season is upon us and demonstrates to even the most casual observer that the time of Jesus return is imminent.

[/quote]I think things are looking up in just the last 100 years and they sure look better then 2000 years ago.
If you are aware of your culture you will notice the ancient gods never left us but God keeps right on changing with us.

[Choir Loft]

One of the biggest clues Jesus said would be a massive increase in violence; like no other time in recorded history. It's true enough. Murder and crimes of violence are greater than ever before. Take for instance Central Park in New York City. As recently as the beginning of the twentieth century, violent crime did not affect those who enjoyed the park. NY City muggings are so common today that they've become a joke, not to mention those of other cities such as L.A., Chicago, etc. The entire nation of Italy is known no longer for its beauty and art, but for its thievery and muggings. I could go on and on, but you should have the picture. Never before has such violence ruled the earth. Not only is it great, but we've become used to it. Read the history books; never before has it been this way.

Reliable statistics speak more clearly than unsupported anecdotal evidence.

U.S. Crime rates from 1970 to 2008

[mrow] Year [mcol] Total rate of crime per 1,000 people [mcol] Total rate of violent crime per 1,000 people [row] 1970 [col] 39.8 [col] 3.6 [row] 1971 [col] 41.6 [col] 4.0 [row] 1972 [col] 39.6 [col] 4.0 [row] 1973 [col] 41.5 [col] 4.2 [row] 1974 [col] 48.5 [col] 4.6 [row] 1975 [col] 53.0 [col] 4.9 [row] 1976 [col] 52.9 [col] 4.7 [row] 1977 [col] 50.8 [col] 4.8 [row] 1978 [col] 51.4 [col] 5.0 [row] 1979 [col] 55.7 [col] 5.5 [row] 1980 [col] 59.5 [col] 6.0 [row] 1981 [col] 58.6 [col] 5.9 [row] 1982 [col] 56.0 [col] 5.7 [row] 1983 [col] 51.8 [col] 5.4 [row] 1984 [col] 50.3 [col] 5.4 [row] 1985 [col] 52.1 [col] 5.6 [row] 1986 [col] 55.0 [col] 6.2 [row] 1987 [col] 55.8 [col] 6.1 [row] 1988 [col] 56.6 [col] 6.4 [row] 1989 [col] 57.4 [col] 6.6 [row] 1990 [col] 58.2 [col] 7.3 [row] 1991 [col] 59.0 [col] 7.6 [row] 1992 [col] 56.6 [col] 7.6 [row] 1993 [col] 54.8 [col] 7.5 [row] 1994 [col] 53.7 [col] 7.1 [row] 1995 [col] 52.8 [col] 6.8 [row] 1996 [col] 50.9 [col] 6.4 [row] 1997 [col] 49.3 [col] 6.1 [row] 1998 [col] 46.2 [col] 5.7 [row] 1999 [col] 42.7 [col] 5.2 [row] 2000 [col] 41.2 [col] 5.1 [row] 2001 [col] 41.6 [col] 5.0 [row] 2002 [col] 41.3 [col] 4.9 [row] 2003 [col] 40.7 [col] 4.8 [row] 2004 [col] 39.8 [col] 4.6 [row] 2005 [col] 39.0 [col] 4.7 [row] 2006 [col] 38.1 [col] 4.7 [row] 2007 [col] 37.3 [col] 4.7 [row] 2008 [col] 36.7 [col] 4.5

Another clue is a prophesied increase in pollution. Don't need to quote facts and figures here as we all know the problem is due to industrial development which never happened until the modern age. The ancients couldn't even conceive of such a thing, yet here we are enjoying the poisonous soup we live in.

I seem to have missed where increased pollution was prophesied in the New Testament as a precursor to Jesus' return. Please provide the reference.

Yet another ancient prophecy (and this is one not limited to the Bible) is that there would be signs and wonders in the heavens. We have become so accustomed to space flight and observation of astronomical wonders on other planets that we've missed this subtle, yet amazingly important clue. In the days of the ancients, such things happened once every few centuries. Today they are as common as a sunrise.

Have you seen a star hovering over a village lately?

Did you even bother to READ my post? Doesn't look like it to me. I mentioned the early years of the twentieth century in comparison. In 1900, for example, the average homicide rate per 100,000 was 1 per 100,000 population as opposed to nearly 10 in 1970. This is definitely a big jump by any standard.

Try and read my post again, acknowledging the possibility that you may be mistaken about a few things....beginning with the facts.

[Choir Loft]

Actually the unknown writer of Mark has Jesus saying something about sign which I am pretty sure the author meant something closer to his time.
I agree I am sure there are more reasons you think Christ is coming or returning that are not in the Bible..

First let's get the authorship of the Gospel of Mark correct. Scholars generally accept that Mark, a relation of Barnabus wrote the thing. Source for that is the second century...much closer to the actual creation of the document than your fictional reference to anonymous writers who have decided to rewrite history from 1,900 years distance. Very bad hindsight for pseudo-sources who wish to lie about the literature.

That being said the prophecies of pollution during the end times include the Bible:
The earth also is polluted under the inhabitants thereof’; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are found guilty: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
Isa 24:5&6

The Qur'an:
"Corruption has spread on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought"
Qur'an 30:42

And even an odd reference or two by Nostradamus.

Even if you disbelieve all these references you cannot fault the evidence of your own eyes that industrial pollution is everywhere on the planet. Industrial pollution that never happened or could be imagined prior to the industrial age.

... you are using one passage to say a number of different things without showing us any relevance or connection to what was actually written.
Of course with all the pollution it is hard to see the sign as night, not like it use to be. ..

The relevance and connection are clearly demonstrated and stated.

Here is one more prophecy of the last days that the reader should be aware of....

in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:3-4

Thank you for helping to fulfill those words.

[Cathar1950]

Actually the unknown writer of Mark has Jesus saying something about sign which I am pretty sure the author meant something closer to his time.
I agree I am sure there are more reasons you think Christ is coming or returning that are not in the Bible..

First let's get the authorship of the Gospel of Mark correct. Scholars generally accept that Mark, a relation of Barnabus wrote the thing. Source for that is the second century...much closer to the actual creation of the document than your fictional reference to anonymous writers who have decided to rewrite history from 1,900 years distance. Very bad hindsight for pseudo-sources who wish to lie about the literature.

First let us get the authorship correct; the author is unknown. The name given is tradition and fails to fit what is even known about the writing, the authors understanding, or the traditions and descriptions regarding what ever writing the Church fathers mention.
Scholars pretty much agree the author is unknown and he was not the Mark mentioned in the NT. I am going with the best and most recent scholarship on this and I would like to see something to show that “ Scholars generally accept that Mark, a relation of Barnabus wrote the thing� as it isn’t true.
It was an early church father and the unknown author of Luke that was rewriting the church history as a more idealized one-sided history much as was done with the Hebrew writings and their idealized histories in the Christian OT.

That being said the prophecies of pollution during the end times include the Bible:
The earth also is polluted under the inhabitants thereof’; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are found guilty: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
Isa 24:5&6

I am betting pollution is more about ritual uncleanness the water and air pollution we have today. Just like righteous is more of ritual purity the morality.
You need to read it in context and not project you own meanings as you reinterpret.
I guess the same goes for the rest of you so-called prophesies as you make them fit your wishes.

... you are using one passage to say a number of different things without showing us any relevance or connection to what was actually written.
Of course with all the pollution it is hard to see the sign as night, not like it use to be. ..

The relevance and connection are clearly demonstrated and stated.

Here is one more prophecy of the last days that the reader should be aware of....

in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:3-4

Thank you for helping to fulfill those words.

What a cheap shot and unconnected BS.
And you used a psuograph (2Peter) or forgery calling it a prophesy when it was being said at the time of the writing as they were trying to tell them they were in the last days even if Peter and everyone was dead.

[Goat]

Here is one more prophecy of the last days that the reader should be aware of....

in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:3-4

Thank you for helping to fulfill those words.

What I would like to know in what day WASN'T there mockers?
Ia that a prediction, or an observation? Certainly a lot of people mocked Christianity from the very beginning

[Cathar1950]

Here is one more prophecy of the last days that the reader should be aware of....

in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:3-4

Thank you for helping to fulfill those words.

What I would like to know in what day WASN'T there mockers?
Ia that a prediction, or an observation? Certainly a lot of people mocked Christianity from the very beginning

True but the forger of the letter was later when things started looking like like it wasn't going to happen. Any time after, even centuries later, they can look back and read this fake letter that tells them "Peter said they would say this" and they would always be right and 2000 years later it is just that much more true.

[Choir Loft]

First let us get the authorship correct; the author is unknown. The name given is tradition and fails to fit what is even known about the writing, the authors understanding, or the traditions and descriptions regarding what ever writing the Church fathers mention.
Scholars pretty much agree the author is unknown and he was not the Mark mentioned in the NT. I am going with the best and most recent scholarship on this and I would like to see something to show that “

Your statement of anonymous authorship of the Gospel of Mark is entirely bogus and a misdirection of facts. No modern scholar can accurately and truthfully certify that Mark wasn't the author while second century testimony and a couple thousand years of tradition tell us otherwise. These things are recorded fact and in your post you even acknowledged they exist.

Perhaps one of your "modern scholars" invented a time machine and observed all that. One of the things I learned from higher education was that modern "scholars" frequently twist facts just so that they can sell books. You are free to believe what you want, even if you depend upon false information to base your opinoin.

I am betting pollution is more about ritual uncleanness the water and air pollution we have today. Just like righteous is more of ritual purity the morality.
You need to read it in context and not project you own meanings as you reinterpret.
I guess the same goes for the rest of you so-called prophesies as you make them fit your wishes.

You said it better than I could have. "I am betting" is neither a factual nor scholarly interpretation of the original Biblical documents. "I am betting" is a completely subjective opinion and totally out of context of the scripture as I've shared it. You've said that I project my meanings while at the same time "I am betting" is supposed to be some sort of certification of certainty. I certainly don't accept "I am betting" as some sort of fact and I doubt that no other reasonable person would either.

in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:3-4

Thank you for helping to fulfill those words.

What a cheap shot and unconnected BS.
And you used a psuograph (2Peter) or forgery calling it a prophesy when it was being said at the time of the writing as they were trying to tell them they were in the last days even if Peter and everyone was dead.

Again, you refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the quotation I delivered. Instead you call it a forgery without presenting a single point of fact or figure to back up your statement. "I am betting" you don't have any.

"I am betting" that you substitute mockery for truth in the same way that a pagan priest substitutes ceremony for science.

Again, you are entitled to believe or accept or reject anything you choose.

"I am betting" that when we stand before the Lord on the last day things will look a lot different. What do you think? I've got nothing to lose by being wrong, but what if your "betting" is wrong, what then?

Here is something that the Lord shared with me.
"For the word of the cross is to them that are perishing foolishness; but unto us which are being saved it is the power of God."
1Co 1:18

[Choir Loft]

Here is one more prophecy of the last days that the reader should be aware of....

in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:3-4

Thank you for helping to fulfill those words.

What I would like to know in what day WASN'T there mockers?
Ia that a prediction, or an observation? Certainly a lot of people mocked Christianity from the very beginning

True but the forger of the letter was later when things started looking like like it wasn't going to happen. Any time after, even centuries later, they can look back and read this fake letter that tells them "Peter said they would say this" and they would always be right and 2000 years later it is just that much more true.

You cannot prove forgery. If you had the facts you'd have done it.

Instead you substitute inuendo, false assumption, and sacriledge for the truth.

You source a lie (if you have one at all.....which I really doubt) and you have served to fulfill the prophecy even in your own effort to deny it.

Thanks again for proving the scripture true.

[Goat]

First let us get the authorship correct; the author is unknown. The name given is tradition and fails to fit what is even known about the writing, the authors understanding, or the traditions and descriptions regarding what ever writing the Church fathers mention.
Scholars pretty much agree the author is unknown and he was not the Mark mentioned in the NT. I am going with the best and most recent scholarship on this and I would like to see something to show that “

Your statement of anonymous authorship of the Gospel of Mark is entirely bogus and a misdirection of facts. No modern scholar can accurately and truthfully certify that Mark wasn't the author while second century testimony and a couple thousand years of tradition tell us otherwise. These things are recorded fact and in your post you even acknowledged they exist.

What is more important no modern scholar can accurately and truthfully say that Mark WAS the author.

[Cathar1950]

Here is one more prophecy of the last days that the reader should be aware of....

in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:3-4

Thank you for helping to fulfill those words.

What I would like to know in what day WASN'T there mockers?
Ia that a prediction, or an observation? Certainly a lot of people mocked Christianity from the very beginning

True but the forger of the letter was later when things started looking like like it wasn't going to happen. Any time after, even centuries later, they can look back and read this fake letter that tells them "Peter said they would say this" and they would always be right and 2000 years later it is just that much more true.

You cannot prove forgery. If you had the facts you'd have done it.

Instead you substitute inuendo, false assumption, and sacriledge for the truth.

You source a lie (if you have one at all.....which I really doubt) and you have served to fulfill the prophecy even in your own effort to deny it.

Thanks again for proving the scripture true.

You have shown you don't understand the scholarship or the writings and you don't have any idea. It isn't prophesy and it isn't thought to be written by Peter. Of course you are going to accept anything you believe as taught. You have been preaching in a debate forum.