Is atheism a religion?

Nilloc James · Post by **Nilloc James** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:28 pm

In many places I have seen theists claim atheism is just as much as a religion as any existing one.

Question for debate:
Is atheism a religion?

MY view is summarized by this quote:

Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. - Don Hirschberg

But I want to know other peoples opinions.

msmcneal · Post by **msmcneal** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:59 pm

Is atheism a religion? I've been hearing a good bit lately from Christians claiming that atheism is a religion, and on the other side of the coin, these same Christians claiming that Christianity is not a religion. Now, besides the redefining of terms, is the actually the case?

Dictionary.com wrote:1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

Now, which set of ideas fits more into this definition? It should be quite clear which is a religion and which isn't. I find it absurd that Christians make the claim that atheism is a religion. My guess is that they find it easier to attack if they think of it in this way. I also think that they simply cannot comprehend the fact that there are people who simply do not believe in the existence of any god. It's one thing to simply misunderstand a person's viewpoint. It's something else to actually and purposfully misrepresent the facts.

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:33 pm

Neither atheism nor theism are religions. They are beliefs about the existence of God. For most religions, theism is a required belief and atheism is anathema.

Furrowed Brow · Post by **Furrowed Brow** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:01 am

If Atheism is a religion it is a religion that does NOT:

Pray
Sing songs
Congegrate on special days and dates
Wear special clothes/robes/pointy hats
Have any ceremonies
Have oaths or promises
Have any set texts or writings of special importance
Believe anything is divine because someone or some text says so
Believe anything is not divine because someone or some text says so
Try to save people
Have a metaphysics
Make demands on what people must believe other that the validity of argument
Admit leaps of faith as proof or demonstration of truth
Admit personal testimony as proof or demonstration of truth
Admit statistically improbably events as proof or demonstration of the existence of a deity
Make demands on how people behave morally.

If atheism is a religion it is a religion that:

Submits to valid and judicious argument that admits nothing as proved until it is proved, nothing as demonstrated as likely until it is so demonstrated.

It is reasonable to conclude that atheism is no religion at all. But heck if someone want to insist then let them define on exactly what grounds atheism counts as a religion

.

onefaith · Post by **onefaith** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:03 am

I'm not arguing with you, but I'm going to ask this. Do atheists believe that God exists? Obviously the answer is no. Do atheists believe that God does NOT exist? I'm going to assume yes, but tell me if I'm wrong.

IF atheists believe that God does not exist, then, by Furrowed Brow's statement of what atheism as a religion should be, the fact must be proven, or it cannot be accepted. So here's my question. Do you believe without doubt that God does not exist, and if so, what evidence do you have that he doesn't, or do you believe that he could exist, but you're not willing to believe that he does unless there is evidence?

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:06 am

onefaith wrote:
I'm not arguing with you, but I'm going to ask this. Do atheists believe that God exists? Obviously the answer is no. Do atheists believe that God does NOT exist? I'm going to assume yes, but tell me if I'm wrong.

You are no completely right....does that mean you are wrong?

Here is two statements....

I do not believe in god.

I do not believe god exists.

They are not identical.

One deals with belief the other with existence. Both are atheist. Those who hold the former do not necessarily have to hold the latter.

onefaith wrote:

IF atheists believe that God does not exist, then, by Furrowed Brow's statement of what atheism as a religion should be, the fact must be proven, or it cannot be accepted. So here's my question. Do you believe without doubt that God does not exist, and if so, what evidence do you have that he doesn't, or do you believe that he could exist, but you're not willing to believe that he does unless there is evidence?

By 'god' I'm assuming you mean the christian version of god. What evidence would you expect of 'non existence'? Invisibility? That is in abundance? Non interaction with the ways of the world despite the behests of his 'faithful'? Yep. The existence of 'evil'? Yep. The fact that many do not believe? Yep.

There is no need, reason or evidence for the existence of any god - including yours.

Can you provide a need reason or evidence for your god seeing it is you who claims its existence?

Atheism is a religion in the same way not collecting stamps is a hobby.

realthinker · Post by **realthinker** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:02 am

onefaith wrote:I'm not arguing with you, but I'm going to ask this. Do atheists believe that God exists? Obviously the answer is no. Do atheists believe that God does NOT exist? I'm going to assume yes, but tell me if I'm wrong.

IF atheists believe that God does not exist, then, by Furrowed Brow's statement of what atheism as a religion should be, the fact must be proven, or it cannot be accepted. So here's my question. Do you believe without doubt that God does not exist, and if so, what evidence do you have that he doesn't, or do you believe that he could exist, but you're not willing to believe that he does unless there is evidence?

I do not believe that God exists.

Things that exist are those things which have a material or energy manifestation that is detectable by human faculties or the extensions of those faculties that Man has devised. Existence must be consistent and must also be independent of the observer.

God has no physical manifestation. You can argue that Jesus was the physical manifestation, but that's a non sequitor. Jesus's manifestation was as a man. Even if his acts, which cannot be verified, were beyond the norm for a human there is nothing to suggest that Jesus was the God that is so often described. Jesus may have been sensational, but there's nothing to suggest that he is the creator of all existence. Considering the relative ignorance of the natural world plus the history of superstition of the time and even the following centuries, it's far more likely that Jesus stories are similar.

God also has no energy manifestation. We cannot use any sensor that we have to detect Godly presence as we have done for quasars and distant galaxies.

Those things that we can name but do not have a material or energy manifestation are concepts. Language allows the persistence and transmission of concepts. That transmission and persistence allows for the formation of culture, which includes myths. Here's where God fits.

JoeyKnothead · Post by **JoeyKnothead** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:53 pm

From Page 1 Post 5:

onefaith wrote: IF atheists believe that God does not exist, then, by Furrowed Brow's statement of what atheism as a religion should be, the fact must be proven, or it cannot be accepted. So here's my question. Do you believe without doubt that God does not exist, and if so, what evidence do you have that he doesn't, or do you believe that he could exist, but you're not willing to believe that he does unless there is evidence?

My atheism is based on several factors, among them the lack of evidence for any gods, and the fantastical nature of claims made for these gods. I also have reason to be atheist based on my amateur understanding of how god belief works.

As for evidence a given god does not exist, my evidence is the lack of evidence a given does exist. I see no evidence based on physical, logical, or rational reason; I see no reason to believe.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:36 pm

onefaith wrote:I'm not arguing with you, but I'm going to ask this. Do atheists believe that God exists? Obviously the answer is no. Do atheists believe that God does NOT exist? I'm going to assume yes, but tell me if I'm wrong.

IF atheists believe that God does not exist, then, by Furrowed Brow's statement of what atheism as a religion should be, the fact must be proven, or it cannot be accepted. So here's my question. Do you believe without doubt that God does not exist, and if so, what evidence do you have that he doesn't, or do you believe that he could exist, but you're not willing to believe that he does unless there is evidence?

As an addendum...McC has pointed out elswhere....

Theism = belief god or gods exist
Atheism = not beleiving god or gods exist.

Neither theism not atheism are religions.

The codification of a belief that a specific god exists = religion.

zepper899 · Post by **zepper899** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:11 pm

realthinker wrote:
onefaith wrote:I'm not arguing with you, but I'm going to ask this. Do atheists believe that God exists? Obviously the answer is no. Do atheists believe that God does NOT exist? I'm going to assume yes, but tell me if I'm wrong.

IF atheists believe that God does not exist, then, by Furrowed Brow's statement of what atheism as a religion should be, the fact must be proven, or it cannot be accepted. So here's my question. Do you believe without doubt that God does not exist, and if so, what evidence do you have that he doesn't, or do you believe that he could exist, but you're not willing to believe that he does unless there is evidence?
I do not believe that God exists.

Things that exist are those things which have a material or energy manifestation that is detectable by human faculties or the extensions of those faculties that Man has devised. Existence must be consistent and must also be independent of the observer.

God has no physical manifestation. You can argue that Jesus was the physical manifestation, but that's a non sequitor. Jesus's manifestation was as a man. Even if his acts, which cannot be verified, were beyond the norm for a human there is nothing to suggest that Jesus was the God that is so often described. Jesus may have been sensational, but there's nothing to suggest that he is the creator of all existence. Considering the relative ignorance of the natural world plus the history of superstition of the time and even the following centuries, it's far more likely that Jesus stories are similar.

God also has no energy manifestation. We cannot use any sensor that we have to detect Godly presence as we have done for quasars and distant galaxies.

Those things that we can name but do not have a material or energy manifestation are concepts. Language allows the persistence and transmission of concepts. That transmission and persistence allows for the formation of culture, which includes myths. Here's where God fits.

Realthinker, Iâ€™m hung up on your insistence on physical manifestations. If there is one thing I know, itâ€™s that Iâ€™m a thinking creature (not in the created sense). My thoughts can be strong or weak, the can be good or bad, they can be complicated or simple, but in every case they are being. They are.
I would suggest a new thread for this topic; it really seems interesting to me.

As for the topic, disbelief in x does not have to lead to a belief in y.
I think that it is not raining outside. That doesnâ€™t mean that it is sunny or I think it is sunny. It is snowing.

Show me some proof that it is raining or God exists and Iâ€™ll believe you, in the meantime, Iâ€™ll go back to being an atheist and hating the Canadian winter.