Evolution

[keithprosser3]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

[Sonofason]

Clownboat, that is not a logical conclusion. I have already proven that. The conclusion that you have drawn from the premises is false. Evolution is a good reason for accepting why human beings are complex. It does not logically follow from these two premises why we exist. Evolution does not explain why we exist.

Why must you assume there is a 'why'? Can you show me evidence there is a 'why'. Personal testimony is not evidence, but merely opinion.

I assume there is a why because my experience tells me that there is always an explanation for everything.

Does your experience tell you that, or is that a preconception on your part. Please, describe to me your experience that there is an explanation for everything, and then, more importantly, show that there is a valid explanation, rather than just an ad hoc one.

To me, your sentence translates to 'because i say so', and I don't accept that as a valid explanation.

I have a job, in part because I went out in search for a job, and in part because the place of employment where I found a job was seeking employees, and in part because I had the credentials satisfying the employers requirements. Certainly, there are other factors as well that would have had to have been in place for me to get the job I got, but all of these factors contributed to me getting the job.

I was born. There is a reason why I was born. My parents had sex, and the particular chromosomes that combined just so happened to be those required to be me. Had some other chromosomes combined, I would not exist. My parents had sex, why? Well, I don't know for sure, but I assume they had a desire to have sex, or perhaps a desire to have children. I think they knew that having sex can result in children being born. Why are children born? In part, children are born because people have sex. Do you want to know why people have sex? Certainly there are reasons why.

But just because you do understand why something exists does not, in any way, indicate that there is no explanation why it exists. It is quite possible that we don't know why.

[Goat]

Clownboat, that is not a logical conclusion. I have already proven that. The conclusion that you have drawn from the premises is false. Evolution is a good reason for accepting why human beings are complex. It does not logically follow from these two premises why we exist. Evolution does not explain why we exist.

Why must you assume there is a 'why'? Can you show me evidence there is a 'why'. Personal testimony is not evidence, but merely opinion.

I assume there is a why because my experience tells me that there is always an explanation for everything.

Does your experience tell you that, or is that a preconception on your part. Please, describe to me your experience that there is an explanation for everything, and then, more importantly, show that there is a valid explanation, rather than just an ad hoc one.

To me, your sentence translates to 'because i say so', and I don't accept that as a valid explanation.

I have a job, in part because I went out in search for a job, and in part because the place of employment where I found a job was seeking employees, and in part because I had the credentials satisfying the employers requirements. Certainly, there are other factors as well that would have had to have been in place for me to get the job I got, but all of these factors contributed to me getting the job.

I was born. There is a reason why I was born. My parents had sex, and the particular chromosomes that combined just so happened to be those required to be me. Had some other chromosomes combined, I would not exist. My parents had sex, why? Well, I don't know for sure, but I assume they had a desire to have sex, or perhaps a desire to have children. I think they knew that having sex can result in children being born. Why are children born? In part, children are born because people have sex. Do you want to know why people have sex? Certainly there are reasons why.

But just because you do understand why something exists does not, in any way, indicate that there is no explanation why it exists. It is quite possible that we don't know why.

And, this has anything to do with anything because,and answers the question exactly how?

[Sonofason]

Clownboat, that is not a logical conclusion. I have already proven that. The conclusion that you have drawn from the premises is false. Evolution is a good reason for accepting why human beings are complex. It does not logically follow from these two premises why we exist. Evolution does not explain why we exist.

Why must you assume there is a 'why'? Can you show me evidence there is a 'why'. Personal testimony is not evidence, but merely opinion.

I assume there is a why because my experience tells me that there is always an explanation for everything.

Does your experience tell you that, or is that a preconception on your part. Please, describe to me your experience that there is an explanation for everything, and then, more importantly, show that there is a valid explanation, rather than just an ad hoc one.

To me, your sentence translates to 'because i say so', and I don't accept that as a valid explanation.

I have a job, in part because I went out in search for a job, and in part because the place of employment where I found a job was seeking employees, and in part because I had the credentials satisfying the employers requirements. Certainly, there are other factors as well that would have had to have been in place for me to get the job I got, but all of these factors contributed to me getting the job.

I was born. There is a reason why I was born. My parents had sex, and the particular chromosomes that combined just so happened to be those required to be me. Had some other chromosomes combined, I would not exist. My parents had sex, why? Well, I don't know for sure, but I assume they had a desire to have sex, or perhaps a desire to have children. I think they knew that having sex can result in children being born. Why are children born? In part, children are born because people have sex. Do you want to know why people have sex? Certainly there are reasons why.

But just because you do understand why something exists does not, in any way, indicate that there is no explanation why it exists. It is quite possible that we don't know why.

And, this has anything to do with anything because,and answers the question exactly how?

Exactly what question are you referring to?

[Goat]

Clownboat, that is not a logical conclusion. I have already proven that. The conclusion that you have drawn from the premises is false. Evolution is a good reason for accepting why human beings are complex. It does not logically follow from these two premises why we exist. Evolution does not explain why we exist.

Why must you assume there is a 'why'? Can you show me evidence there is a 'why'. Personal testimony is not evidence, but merely opinion.

I assume there is a why because my experience tells me that there is always an explanation for everything.

Does your experience tell you that, or is that a preconception on your part. Please, describe to me your experience that there is an explanation for everything, and then, more importantly, show that there is a valid explanation, rather than just an ad hoc one.

To me, your sentence translates to 'because i say so', and I don't accept that as a valid explanation.

I have a job, in part because I went out in search for a job, and in part because the place of employment where I found a job was seeking employees, and in part because I had the credentials satisfying the employers requirements. Certainly, there are other factors as well that would have had to have been in place for me to get the job I got, but all of these factors contributed to me getting the job.

I was born. There is a reason why I was born. My parents had sex, and the particular chromosomes that combined just so happened to be those required to be me. Had some other chromosomes combined, I would not exist. My parents had sex, why? Well, I don't know for sure, but I assume they had a desire to have sex, or perhaps a desire to have children. I think they knew that having sex can result in children being born. Why are children born? In part, children are born because people have sex. Do you want to know why people have sex? Certainly there are reasons why.

But just because you do understand why something exists does not, in any way, indicate that there is no explanation why it exists. It is quite possible that we don't know why.

And, this has anything to do with anything because,and answers the question exactly how?

Exactly what question are you referring to?

Can you show that everything has a 'why'. Your description of your experience showed 'what, and how', but not 'why'.

[Sonofason]

Clownboat, that is not a logical conclusion. I have already proven that. The conclusion that you have drawn from the premises is false. Evolution is a good reason for accepting why human beings are complex. It does not logically follow from these two premises why we exist. Evolution does not explain why we exist.

Why must you assume there is a 'why'? Can you show me evidence there is a 'why'. Personal testimony is not evidence, but merely opinion.

I assume there is a why because my experience tells me that there is always an explanation for everything.

Does your experience tell you that, or is that a preconception on your part. Please, describe to me your experience that there is an explanation for everything, and then, more importantly, show that there is a valid explanation, rather than just an ad hoc one.

To me, your sentence translates to 'because i say so', and I don't accept that as a valid explanation.

I have a job, in part because I went out in search for a job, and in part because the place of employment where I found a job was seeking employees, and in part because I had the credentials satisfying the employers requirements. Certainly, there are other factors as well that would have had to have been in place for me to get the job I got, but all of these factors contributed to me getting the job.

I was born. There is a reason why I was born. My parents had sex, and the particular chromosomes that combined just so happened to be those required to be me. Had some other chromosomes combined, I would not exist. My parents had sex, why? Well, I don't know for sure, but I assume they had a desire to have sex, or perhaps a desire to have children. I think they knew that having sex can result in children being born. Why are children born? In part, children are born because people have sex. Do you want to know why people have sex? Certainly there are reasons why.

But just because you do understand why something exists does not, in any way, indicate that there is no explanation why it exists. It is quite possible that we don't know why.

And, this has anything to do with anything because,and answers the question exactly how?

Exactly what question are you referring to?

Can you show that everything has a 'why'. Your description of your experience showed 'what, and how', but not 'why'.

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

[JohnA]

Clownboat, that is not a logical conclusion. I have already proven that. The conclusion that you have drawn from the premises is false. Evolution is a good reason for accepting why human beings are complex. It does not logically follow from these two premises why we exist. Evolution does not explain why we exist.

Why must you assume there is a 'why'? Can you show me evidence there is a 'why'. Personal testimony is not evidence, but merely opinion.

I assume there is a why because my experience tells me that there is always an explanation for everything.

Does your experience tell you that, or is that a preconception on your part. Please, describe to me your experience that there is an explanation for everything, and then, more importantly, show that there is a valid explanation, rather than just an ad hoc one.

To me, your sentence translates to 'because i say so', and I don't accept that as a valid explanation.

I have a job, in part because I went out in search for a job, and in part because the place of employment where I found a job was seeking employees, and in part because I had the credentials satisfying the employers requirements. Certainly, there are other factors as well that would have had to have been in place for me to get the job I got, but all of these factors contributed to me getting the job.

I was born. There is a reason why I was born. My parents had sex, and the particular chromosomes that combined just so happened to be those required to be me. Had some other chromosomes combined, I would not exist. My parents had sex, why? Well, I don't know for sure, but I assume they had a desire to have sex, or perhaps a desire to have children. I think they knew that having sex can result in children being born. Why are children born? In part, children are born because people have sex. Do you want to know why people have sex? Certainly there are reasons why.

But just because you do understand why something exists does not, in any way, indicate that there is no explanation why it exists. It is quite possible that we don't know why.

And, this has anything to do with anything because,and answers the question exactly how?

Exactly what question are you referring to?

Can you show that everything has a 'why'. Your description of your experience showed 'what, and how', but not 'why'.

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Am glad you accept Evolution.
Am glad toy accepted your faith; you have no evidence for your god? there can not be any evidence.

The way I read your post was that it's saying that science can not explain why the universe or live exists.

All I can say is that it can not be any other way, if it was then we would not observe the universe at all - so it does not matter, the questions is redundant.

Postulating a god as the explanation why anything exists does not answer it either, because you have no choice to ask then why does the god exist. If you say it can not be any other way, then why propose a god then? Why not stop at the universe, at least we CAN and DO observe it.
Why do you reject this?

[Sonofason]

Clownboat, that is not a logical conclusion. I have already proven that. The conclusion that you have drawn from the premises is false. Evolution is a good reason for accepting why human beings are complex. It does not logically follow from these two premises why we exist. Evolution does not explain why we exist.

Why must you assume there is a 'why'? Can you show me evidence there is a 'why'. Personal testimony is not evidence, but merely opinion.

I assume there is a why because my experience tells me that there is always an explanation for everything.

Does your experience tell you that, or is that a preconception on your part. Please, describe to me your experience that there is an explanation for everything, and then, more importantly, show that there is a valid explanation, rather than just an ad hoc one.

To me, your sentence translates to 'because i say so', and I don't accept that as a valid explanation.

I have a job, in part because I went out in search for a job, and in part because the place of employment where I found a job was seeking employees, and in part because I had the credentials satisfying the employers requirements. Certainly, there are other factors as well that would have had to have been in place for me to get the job I got, but all of these factors contributed to me getting the job.

I was born. There is a reason why I was born. My parents had sex, and the particular chromosomes that combined just so happened to be those required to be me. Had some other chromosomes combined, I would not exist. My parents had sex, why? Well, I don't know for sure, but I assume they had a desire to have sex, or perhaps a desire to have children. I think they knew that having sex can result in children being born. Why are children born? In part, children are born because people have sex. Do you want to know why people have sex? Certainly there are reasons why.

But just because you do understand why something exists does not, in any way, indicate that there is no explanation why it exists. It is quite possible that we don't know why.

And, this has anything to do with anything because,and answers the question exactly how?

Exactly what question are you referring to?

Can you show that everything has a 'why'. Your description of your experience showed 'what, and how', but not 'why'.

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Am glad you accept Evolution.
Am glad toy accepted your faith; you have no evidence for your god? there can not be any evidence.

The way I read your post was that it's saying that science can not explain why the universe or live exists.

All I can say is that it can not be any other way, if it was then we would not observe the universe at all - so it does not matter, the questions is redundant.

Postulating a god as the explanation why anything exists does not answer it either, because you have no choice to ask then why does the god exist. If you say it can not be any other way, then why propose a god then? Why not stop at the universe, at least we CAN and DO observe it.
Why do you reject this?

I do not postulate that God is an explanation for anything. God is the explanation for life and existence. You can ask all day long why God exists. It is because He always has existed. It is because He always will exist. It is because, the why is because He is God.

You cannot say that of me. I have not always existed. There is a cause for my existence. There is a cause for the bookshelf that holds all my books. There is a cause for every book that has been written to be written. But God exists, He is the only thing that exists that has always existed. You see, I know the reasons why. But you don't.

[Nickman]

I do not postulate that God is an explanation for anything. God is the explanation for life and existence.

You just refuted yourself.

You can ask all day long why God exists. It is because He always has existed. It is because He always will exist. It is because, the why is because He is God.

Show this to be true.

You cannot say that of me. I have not always existed. There is a cause for my existence.

Your parents are the cause of your existence

There is a cause for the bookshelf that holds all my books. There is a cause for every book that has been written to be written. But God exists, He is the only thing that exists that has always existed. You see, I know the reasons why. But you don't.

You think you know reasons why, but you only have speculation. You cannot prove any of what you said.

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 246 by Nickman]


Sonofason wrote:

I do not postulate that God is an explanation for anything. God is the explanation for life and existence.

Nickman wrote:

You just refuted yourself.

Well, I suppose I did not convey my thought clearly. What I was trying to suggest is this:
Me postulating that God exists adds nothing to the existence of God. God exists with or without me postulating his existence. God exists without my assumptions. God exists without my postulations. And that is what I meant when I said, "I do not postulate that God is an explanation for anything. God is the explanation for life and existence." God is a fact, with or without any assertions made by me.

Sonofason wrote:

You can ask all day long why God exists. It is because He always has existed. It is because He always will exist. It is because, the why is because He is God.

Nickman wrote:

Show this to be true.

Psalm 90:1-4

Lord, you have been our dwelling place
throughout all generations.

Before the mountains were born
or you brought forth the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

You turn men back to dust,
saying, Return to dust, O sons of men.

For a thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.


Exodus 3:13-14

Moses said to God, Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you, and they ask me, What is his name? Then what shall I tell them? God said to Moses, I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you.


Psalm 100:5
For the LORD is good and his love endures forever;
his faithfulness continues through all generations.

Ephesians 3:10-11
His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 8:58
I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am!


Revelation 1:8
I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

Isaiah 57:15
For this is what the high and lofty One says"
he who lives forever, whose name is holy:
I live in a high and holy place,
but also with him who is contrite and lowly in spirit,
to revive the spirit of the lowly
and to revive the heart of the contrite.

Deuteronomy 33:27
The eternal God is your refuge

1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Sonofason wrote:

You cannot say that of me. I have not always existed. There is a cause for my existence.

Nickman wrote:

Your parents are the cause of your existence

Exactly. Well, my parents are one factor, a partial cause of my existence. Certainly my grandparents are also a cause of my existence. God is also a cause of my existence. There are many factors that have come into play that have together resulted in my being.

Sonofason wrote:

There is a cause for the bookshelf that holds all my books. There is a cause for every book that has been written to be written. But God exists, He is the only thing that exists that has always existed. You see, I know the reasons why. But you don't.

Nickman wrote:

You think you know reasons why, but you only have speculation. You cannot prove any of what you said.

Well, the bookshelf that holds all my books, I built. I am a partial cause of my bookshelf existing. I don't need to prove that I built it. I don't care if you believe me or not. Knowing the truth is quite sufficient for me. If you are without knowledge of the truth, it is truly of little concern to me.

[JohnA]

Why must you assume there is a 'why'? Can you show me evidence there is a 'why'. Personal testimony is not evidence, but merely opinion.

I assume there is a why because my experience tells me that there is always an explanation for everything.

Does your experience tell you that, or is that a preconception on your part. Please, describe to me your experience that there is an explanation for everything, and then, more importantly, show that there is a valid explanation, rather than just an ad hoc one.

To me, your sentence translates to 'because i say so', and I don't accept that as a valid explanation.

I have a job, in part because I went out in search for a job, and in part because the place of employment where I found a job was seeking employees, and in part because I had the credentials satisfying the employers requirements. Certainly, there are other factors as well that would have had to have been in place for me to get the job I got, but all of these factors contributed to me getting the job.

I was born. There is a reason why I was born. My parents had sex, and the particular chromosomes that combined just so happened to be those required to be me. Had some other chromosomes combined, I would not exist. My parents had sex, why? Well, I don't know for sure, but I assume they had a desire to have sex, or perhaps a desire to have children. I think they knew that having sex can result in children being born. Why are children born? In part, children are born because people have sex. Do you want to know why people have sex? Certainly there are reasons why.

But just because you do understand why something exists does not, in any way, indicate that there is no explanation why it exists. It is quite possible that we don't know why.

And, this has anything to do with anything because,and answers the question exactly how?

Exactly what question are you referring to?

Can you show that everything has a 'why'. Your description of your experience showed 'what, and how', but not 'why'.

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Am glad you accept Evolution.
Am glad toy accepted your faith; you have no evidence for your god? there can not be any evidence.

The way I read your post was that it's saying that science can not explain why the universe or live exists.

All I can say is that it can not be any other way, if it was then we would not observe the universe at all - so it does not matter, the questions is redundant.

Postulating a god as the explanation why anything exists does not answer it either, because you have no choice to ask then why does the god exist. If you say it can not be any other way, then why propose a god then? Why not stop at the universe, at least we CAN and DO observe it.
Why do you reject this?

I do not postulate that God is an explanation for anything. God is the explanation for life and existence. You can ask all day long why God exists. It is because He always has existed. It is because He always will exist. It is because, the why is because He is God.

You cannot say that of me. I have not always existed. There is a cause for my existence. There is a cause for the bookshelf that holds all my books. There is a cause for every book that has been written to be written. But God exists, He is the only thing that exists that has always existed. You see, I know the reasons why. But you don't.

Sigh.


Why does your god exists?

You are quick to say science can not tell us why the universe and life exists, when in fact they can. But I am not allowed to ask why your god exists. And you have some authority to refuse to answer it.

Yep, religion has answers that may not be questioned.
Science has questions that may not be answered.

Btw.
You may have always existed. Your molucules, and some elements can be traced back to when they were created. We know they came from particles. Science has some hypotheses for where these particles came from, they may have always existed. We can test and observe these molecules, elements, particles. Your current arrangement of these molecules is what makes you, but that does not imply your particles came into existence when you were conceived. Are you really this ignorant of science?

Why does your god exists?