Evolution

[keithprosser3]

Given the nature of reproduction and of natural selection isn't evolution inescapable?
How can evolution not happen?

[Sonofason]

I assume there is a why because my experience tells me that there is always an explanation for everything.

Does your experience tell you that, or is that a preconception on your part. Please, describe to me your experience that there is an explanation for everything, and then, more importantly, show that there is a valid explanation, rather than just an ad hoc one.

To me, your sentence translates to 'because i say so', and I don't accept that as a valid explanation.

I have a job, in part because I went out in search for a job, and in part because the place of employment where I found a job was seeking employees, and in part because I had the credentials satisfying the employers requirements. Certainly, there are other factors as well that would have had to have been in place for me to get the job I got, but all of these factors contributed to me getting the job.

I was born. There is a reason why I was born. My parents had sex, and the particular chromosomes that combined just so happened to be those required to be me. Had some other chromosomes combined, I would not exist. My parents had sex, why? Well, I don't know for sure, but I assume they had a desire to have sex, or perhaps a desire to have children. I think they knew that having sex can result in children being born. Why are children born? In part, children are born because people have sex. Do you want to know why people have sex? Certainly there are reasons why.

But just because you do understand why something exists does not, in any way, indicate that there is no explanation why it exists. It is quite possible that we don't know why.

And, this has anything to do with anything because,and answers the question exactly how?

Exactly what question are you referring to?

Can you show that everything has a 'why'. Your description of your experience showed 'what, and how', but not 'why'.

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Am glad you accept Evolution.
Am glad toy accepted your faith; you have no evidence for your god? there can not be any evidence.

The way I read your post was that it's saying that science can not explain why the universe or live exists.

All I can say is that it can not be any other way, if it was then we would not observe the universe at all - so it does not matter, the questions is redundant.

Postulating a god as the explanation why anything exists does not answer it either, because you have no choice to ask then why does the god exist. If you say it can not be any other way, then why propose a god then? Why not stop at the universe, at least we CAN and DO observe it.
Why do you reject this?

I do not postulate that God is an explanation for anything. God is the explanation for life and existence. You can ask all day long why God exists. It is because He always has existed. It is because He always will exist. It is because, the why is because He is God.

You cannot say that of me. I have not always existed. There is a cause for my existence. There is a cause for the bookshelf that holds all my books. There is a cause for every book that has been written to be written. But God exists, He is the only thing that exists that has always existed. You see, I know the reasons why. But you don't.

Sigh.


Why does your god exists?

You are quick to say science can not tell us why the universe and life exists, when in fact they can. But I am not allowed to ask why your god exists. And you have some authority to refuse to answer it.

Yep, religion has answers that may not be questioned.
Science has questions that may not be answered.

Btw.
You may have always existed. Your molucules, and some elements can be traced back to when they were created. We know they came from particles. Science has some hypotheses for where these particles came from, they may have always existed. We can test and observe these molecules, elements, particles. Your current arrangement of these molecules is what makes you, but that does not imply your particles came into existence when you were conceived. Are you really this ignorant of science?

Why does your god exists?

First, you have not shown by any scientific means why the universe and life exists. You can't.

Second, you are referring to my body, not me. My body is composed of a various assortment of molecules. Some of the molecules that were a part of my body are no longer a part of my body. Many of the molecules that my body contains today were not a part of my body in the past. These particles are not me. They are only useful to me in that they can be arranged in such a way so as to be a body for me. The life I have now is the same life I had when I was first conceived. It is the same life that you have. There is only one life, and it is manifested into many bodies. Some bodies contain life, and some do not. Those bodies that do not contain life are dead.

Thirdly, you have contradicted yourself. At first you say, that "You may have always existed." You say this because, as you say, "Your molucules, and some elements can be traced back to when they were created."

But then you say, "Your current arrangement of these molecules is what makes you".

Please explain this inconsistency. How is it that this present arrangement of molecules makes me me, yet I may have always existed? Have all the molecules of my body been arranged in their present state for all of eternity? Please explain your logic, if you can find it.

[Goat]

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Nah.. that is not WHY. That is HOW. How did you get a sharp pencil. You sharpened it.

As for wise, that is a matter of opinion, that many people would not hold.

[Sonofason]

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Nah.. that is not WHY. That is HOW. How did you get a sharp pencil. You sharpened it.

As for wise, that is a matter of opinion, that many people would not hold.

No, no you will not see. Why is the pencil sharp? It is sharp because I sharpened it.

How did I sharpen it? Well, there is this tool I used called a knife. I took the knife and I carved the end of the pencil until it took the shape of a sharp point.

Why did I sharpen it? Well, I wanted it sharp.
How did I sharpen it? I already explained.

[Sonofason]

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Nah.. that is not WHY. That is HOW. How did you get a sharp pencil. You sharpened it.

As for wise, that is a matter of opinion, that many people would not hold.

Let me ask someone with experience. Why does the ego of a man prevent him from acknowledging the truth? I know you know the truth, yet you refuse to acknowledge the truth to others. Is winning so important that truth should be dismissed?

[Star]

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Nah.. that is not WHY. That is HOW. How did you get a sharp pencil. You sharpened it.

As for wise, that is a matter of opinion, that many people would not hold.

Let me ask someone with experience. Why does the ego of a man prevent him from acknowledging the truth? I know you know the truth, yet you refuse to acknowledge the truth to others. Is winning so important that truth should be dismissed?

Wow, you're really grasping at straws now, aren't you?

[Sonofason]

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Nah.. that is not WHY. That is HOW. How did you get a sharp pencil. You sharpened it.

As for wise, that is a matter of opinion, that many people would not hold.

Let me ask someone with experience. Why does the ego of a man prevent him from acknowledging the truth? I know you know the truth, yet you refuse to acknowledge the truth to others. Is winning so important that truth should be dismissed?

Wow, you're really grasping at straws now, aren't you?

Am I?

Please entertain me with your thoughts about a sharp pencil.
First lets entertain the idea that you have in your possession a sharp pencil, and that it is sharp because you took the time to sharpen it, and that in order to sharpen it, you used a knife as a tool. Now please answer the questions below:

Why is the pencil sharp?
Why did you sharpen the pencil?
How did you sharpen the pencil?

[JohnA]

I already explained it. It is not my fault you do not understand it.
Your particles that you consist of May have always existed. Science has not confined that and particles were created. Your particular arrangement of particles is what makes you you.

Why does the universe and life exist? It could not be any other way of it was then we would not observe it, so it isa pointless question. Similar to what is north of the north pole - another stupid pointless question.

Why must your god exist?

How do you know your god always existed? Remember you have no evidence that your god even exists. The bible is the claim, not the evidence.

Can you answer now.

[Star]

Why is the pencil sharp?

Because of its geometric shape. The end tapers to a fine point called an apex or vertex, which has a small surface area.

Why did you sharpen the pencil?

1) To expose the core, and 2) reduce it to a fine point for writing or drawing.

How did you sharpen the pencil?

Used a knife to carve it, apparently.

[Goat]

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Nah.. that is not WHY. That is HOW. How did you get a sharp pencil. You sharpened it.

As for wise, that is a matter of opinion, that many people would not hold.

Let me ask someone with experience. Why does the ego of a man prevent him from acknowledging the truth? I know you know the truth, yet you refuse to acknowledge the truth to others. Is winning so important that truth should be dismissed?

Well, that's the point , isn't it?? There is a difference between ' opinion' and 'truth'. This is a debate forum. Part of showing that your claims are more than just opinion is being able to show what you say is reasonable.

Messing up words, pretending 'how and what' is why, and all that sort of things is not conclusive to showing the validity of your opinion.. Neither is proclaiming yourself 'wise', and you are never wrong.

Can you back up your claims with, you know, something that can be objectively verified?? Can you back up what you claim with something more than 'Because I said so'.

[JohnA]

Does your experience tell you that, or is that a preconception on your part. Please, describe to me your experience that there is an explanation for everything, and then, more importantly, show that there is a valid explanation, rather than just an ad hoc one.

To me, your sentence translates to 'because i say so', and I don't accept that as a valid explanation.

I have a job, in part because I went out in search for a job, and in part because the place of employment where I found a job was seeking employees, and in part because I had the credentials satisfying the employers requirements. Certainly, there are other factors as well that would have had to have been in place for me to get the job I got, but all of these factors contributed to me getting the job.

I was born. There is a reason why I was born. My parents had sex, and the particular chromosomes that combined just so happened to be those required to be me. Had some other chromosomes combined, I would not exist. My parents had sex, why? Well, I don't know for sure, but I assume they had a desire to have sex, or perhaps a desire to have children. I think they knew that having sex can result in children being born. Why are children born? In part, children are born because people have sex. Do you want to know why people have sex? Certainly there are reasons why.

But just because you do understand why something exists does not, in any way, indicate that there is no explanation why it exists. It is quite possible that we don't know why.

And, this has anything to do with anything because,and answers the question exactly how?

Exactly what question are you referring to?

Can you show that everything has a 'why'. Your description of your experience showed 'what, and how', but not 'why'.

No, the descriptions of my experience shows why. You are quite mistaken.

Why do I have a sharp pencil? Because I sharpened it.
Why am I so wise? Because God gives me wisdom.

Am glad you accept Evolution.
Am glad toy accepted your faith; you have no evidence for your god? there can not be any evidence.

The way I read your post was that it's saying that science can not explain why the universe or live exists.

All I can say is that it can not be any other way, if it was then we would not observe the universe at all - so it does not matter, the questions is redundant.

Postulating a god as the explanation why anything exists does not answer it either, because you have no choice to ask then why does the god exist. If you say it can not be any other way, then why propose a god then? Why not stop at the universe, at least we CAN and DO observe it.
Why do you reject this?

I do not postulate that God is an explanation for anything. God is the explanation for life and existence. You can ask all day long why God exists. It is because He always has existed. It is because He always will exist. It is because, the why is because He is God.

You cannot say that of me. I have not always existed. There is a cause for my existence. There is a cause for the bookshelf that holds all my books. There is a cause for every book that has been written to be written. But God exists, He is the only thing that exists that has always existed. You see, I know the reasons why. But you don't.

Sigh.


Why does your god exists?

You are quick to say science can not tell us why the universe and life exists, when in fact they can. But I am not allowed to ask why your god exists. And you have some authority to refuse to answer it.

Yep, religion has answers that may not be questioned.
Science has questions that may not be answered.

Btw.
You may have always existed. Your molucules, and some elements can be traced back to when they were created. We know they came from particles. Science has some hypotheses for where these particles came from, they may have always existed. We can test and observe these molecules, elements, particles. Your current arrangement of these molecules is what makes you, but that does not imply your particles came into existence when you were conceived. Are you really this ignorant of science?

Why does your god exists?

First, you have not shown by any scientific means why the universe and life exists. You can't.

Second, you are referring to my body, not me. My body is composed of a various assortment of molecules. Some of the molecules that were a part of my body are no longer a part of my body. Many of the molecules that my body contains today were not a part of my body in the past. These particles are not me. They are only useful to me in that they can be arranged in such a way so as to be a body for me. The life I have now is the same life I had when I was first conceived. It is the same life that you have. There is only one life, and it is manifested into many bodies. Some bodies contain life, and some do not. Those bodies that do not contain life are dead.

Thirdly, you have contradicted yourself. At first you say, that "You may have always existed." You say this because, as you say, "Your molucules, and some elements can be traced back to when they were created."

But then you say, "Your current arrangement of these molecules is what makes you".

Please explain this inconsistency. How is it that this present arrangement of molecules makes me me, yet I may have always existed? Have all the molecules of my body been arranged in their present state for all of eternity? Please explain your logic, if you can find it.

Sigh. Again.


I already explained it. It is not my fault you do not understand it.
Your particles that you consist of May have always existed. Science has not confined that any particles were created. Your particular arrangement of particles is what makes you you. Are you claiming there is more to you than your arrangement of paticles (elements & molucules)? Can you present any evidence for this?

Why does the universe and life exist?
Answer: It could not be any other way. If it was then we would not observe it. Therefore it is a pointless question. Similar to what is north of the north pole - another stupid pointless question.

Why must your god exist?
How do you know your god always existed?
Remember you have no evidence that your god even exists. The bible is the claim, not the evidence.

Can you answer now, these 3 questions?