What If...?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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theStudent
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What If...?

Post #1

Post by theStudent »

Currently, I am doing what was suggested by some on these forums.
I am researching information both for, and against evolution, and trust me - I am doing so objectively.
While I am still researching, I want to put this out, to hear the different views on it.

During my research I discovered that lately, just over the last decade or so, a lot of informations has been surfacing about fake fossils.
In fact it has now become common place for fossils sold at museums to be checked for genuineness.
I find this interesting.

Why now, is this happening?
Could it be that evidence as it always does, is now surfacing?

For example
Remember the dinosaur hoax - the one that was said to be put together using different bones?
It has recently been found out that it wasn't a hoax after all.
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/02/ ... ecies.html

That is quite interesting.

The fossils aren't the only things that were/are claimed to be fake.
There are the drawings, and pictures as well.
Right now, I am going through a very long document considered a case against some of Darwins picture illustrations.
But have you ever come across this one?

Pictures from the past powerfully shape current views of the world. In books, television programs, and websites, new images appear alongside others that have survived from decades ago. Among the most famous are drawings of embryos by the Darwinist Ernst Haeckel in which humans and other vertebrates begin identical, then diverge toward their adult forms. But these icons of evolution are notorious, too: soon after their publication in 1868, a colleague alleged fraud, and Haeckels many enemies have repeated the charge ever since. His embryos nevertheless became a textbook staple until, in 1997, a biologist accused him again, and creationist advocates of intelligent design forced his figures out. How could the most controversial pictures in the history of science have become some of the most widely seen?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Haeckel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haec ... eks4-6.jpg
English: The pictures illustrate Ernst Haeckel's biogenetic law. In the beginning embryos of different species look remarkable similar, later different characteristics develop. The images initiated controversies and charges of fraud.

All of this lends to a possibility.
Consdering the fact that fossils can be faked, we must accept the fact that Darwin, and other scientists could have lied.

My question here, isn't whether he did lie or not, but rather, Does this not place evolutionists in the same position as the Christians they claim are believing in fables?

Consider:
Christians accept the Bible, as the word of God.
Here are just a few facts about the Bible.
With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time.
It has estimated annual sales of 100 million copies.
It has been a major influence on literature and history, especially in the West where the Gutenberg Bible was the first mass-printed book.
It was the first book ever printed using movable type.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

Archaeological findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls, also called the Qumran Caves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

The evidence is there however, that the book we hold in our hand today (the Bible), contains information written centuries ago.

Atheist call the book fables - the reason I have yet to find out.
Maybe one of the reasons is that they have not seen God, or seen him write any book - whatever.
So they claim that Christians' belief in them and what they present is blind faith, and belief in stories.

However, is this not the case with those who accept the theory of evolution, where all they have to go by, is what scientists claim to be evidence?

By the way...
No one, to this day have seen them recreate the theories.
Any data they give you on species, is usually what already existed (at least what I have come across so far).
As regards other claims, all we have are pictures, and claimed fossils, which could have been edited.

So evolutionists are really believing what men claim - without any substantial proof of their claim.
How is this different to believing a book?

And what if Darwin, and others lied?


I'm just interested in you different opinions and thoughts, on the above.
Here is a nice short video of someone's opinion. Reasonable too.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #381

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 369 by Blastcat]

Fine.
I love these.

You have to do something first though.
Blastcat wrote:1. Please offer us ANY evidence for a "perfect master worker" in the universe. AND I would like his cell phone number.
2. PLEASE explain how something that CAN continue forever MUST continue forever. And I would like a cell phone that would last forever. OH.. and a car.
3.Why bother with this EXTRAVAGANT hypothetical situation of a "perfect master worker"?
4. Why don't girls think I'm as attractive as I think I am?
Prove that you can, or that you have the ability to understand everything.
Oh. And do it before you or I come to our end.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #382

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 370 by Blastcat]
Blastcat wrote:You stand accused of conflating causation with accountability, which are TWO quite different propositions.

How do you plea?
You haven't told me how you understand perfection.
That comes first.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #383

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 372 by H.sapiens]
What I was questioning is how your production line changes product.
Could you explain?
I'm not clear on what you are asking.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #384

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 373 by Neatras]

You seem to have a, how should I say... a knowledge of scientific theory.

Do you have any evidence that I can see?
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #385

Post by H.sapiens »

theStudent wrote: [Replying to post 372 by H.sapiens]
What I was questioning is how your production line changes product.
Could you explain?
I'm not clear on what you are asking.
We see from many sources (fossil record, genomic, immunological, Endogenous Retro-viral, etc.) that what is "rolling of the assembly line" changes. What is the mechanism that your "assembly line" uses to create such changes?

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Post #386

Post by Neatras »

[Replying to post 381 by theStudent]

Yesiree! Have a look. The pleasure is mine.

Though I will admit that this was relayed to me in video format for easier digesting. I got the information off of this initially.

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Post #387

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 382 by H.sapiens]

If you are referring to from earth's beginning - Here is the start.
From there all mankind inherited the defects/mutations from the first man.
The genetic code which was created, played a role in the variety of humanity.
The same with all others living things, which were created - a male and a female.
They produce offspring, according to their kind.

A creator who is responsible for living things, is capable of anything, so if adaptation is built into every living thing, then that process will kick in when needed, or God can adjust it to suit, in the same way, he could have blessed every woman with a pain free child labor, and child bearing.

However, these are stories and myths to most persons here, so I am not expecting that it will be a satisfactory answer.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #388

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 375 by theStudent]

You think that the UNIVERSE could come into being WITH A WORD... hocus pocus or whatever you imagine that word was... and THATS what you think is great science, but if you sit in a class at OXFORD about biology and how evolution works, that's SUPERSTITION?

The Bible says God created.
How is that equivalent to speaking?

You believe that God created and you AREN'T a creationist?

Your right, though, I had to check Genesis.. it turns out that God didn't EVEN have to speak.. all he had to do... was.... create. No MENTION of mechanism.

HOWEVER, later on, he creates light by saying "Let there be light."... ok, that's more than just ONE word.

But it's just saying a few words. We should try that:

"Let there be good theist arguments"

Ok, didn't work for me, but for GOD.. word magic seems to be the way to do it.
Wow.. non-skeptical about the Bible, and skeptical about ALL the scientific papers that support the theory of evolution. That's HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of papers, by THOUSANDS of really bad scientists, right?
I haven't counted the pages of the Bible, but there is a lot of information there - all reliable.

Of the 1,281 pages in the bible, there are 993 pages in the Old Testament and 288 pages in the New Testament. There are a total of 66 books in both testaments, split into 1,189 chapters. The longest chapter in the bible is Genesis, which has 50 chapters that consume 58 pages and include 1,533 verses. The King James Authorized Bible has 783,137 words.

So, yeah, there are a lot of words.
Which ones are you saying are reliable, and why?

And, you didn't answer what you think is going ON in science.. because if you are correct, there are THOUSANDS of scientists who are wrong, and HUNDREDS of thousands of scientific papers that are thoroughly bogus.

WHY would OTHER good scientists give a PASS to really really BAD scientists?

Any ideas about what's going ON?
theStudent wrote:To be clear.
I am not a creationist, nor do I believe in creationism.
Oh wow... surprise to ME. I didn't see THAT one coming.

So, how do you think that life began on earth?
How do you think the universe begin, and why don't you BELIEVE in the TOE?

Your saying that you aren't a creationist sounds... pretty darn weird to me. Why don't you think that scientists haven't discovered how life changes over time?

Don't you think that scientists have found out mechanisms in nature?

:)

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Post #389

Post by theStudent »

Neatras wrote: [Replying to post 381 by theStudent]

Yesiree! Have a look. The pleasure is mine.

Though I will admit that this was relayed to me in video format for easier digesting. I got the information off of this initially.
I already have this.
Interestingly, whenever I ask for evidence I could never get an experiment that produces real results - that can be counted as evidence, rather than speculation.
So I will give it a second look, and see how this goes.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #390

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 378 by theStudent]
theStudent wrote: Fine.
I love these.
It seems that you might not love them enough to bother answering them, though?
theStudent wrote:You have to do something first though.
And here I thought I was doing something else first.

Ok I'll play along.. tell me what I have to do, I'll try my best to do it.
ANd you can just never mind the 20 or so questions that YOU have left unanswered, how about that?
theStudent wrote:Prove that you can, or that you have the ability to understand everything.
I can't and I don't understand everything.
Do you imagine that I'm a god?
theStudent wrote:Oh. And do it before you or I come to our end.
I won't even bother. Could you tell me what might have been the POINT of asking me that deep, penetrating question?

:)
Last edited by Blastcat on Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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