New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

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Scotracer
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New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

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Post by Scotracer »

Here's two papers on homosexuality and how it ties in with evolution. Up until now it had been a mystery how homosexuality had still been evident in a population since it appeared to be detrimental to fertility.
New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line.

There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one. This suggested that genetic factors that are partly linked to the X-chromosome and that influence homosexual orientation in males are not selected against because they increase fecundity in female carriers, thus offering a solution to the Darwinian paradox and an explanation of why natural selection does not progressively eliminate homosexuals. Since then, new data have emerged suggesting not only an increase in maternal fecundity but also larger paternal family sizes for homosexuals. These results are partly conflicting and indicate the need for a replication on a wider sample with a larger geographic distribution. This study examined the family trees of 250 male probands, of which 152 were homosexuals. The results confirmed the study of Camperio Ciani et al. (2004). We observed a significant fecundity increase even in primiparous mothers, which was not evident in the previous study. No evidence of increased paternal fecundity was found; thus, our data confirmed a sexually antagonistic inheritance partly linked to the X-chromosome that promotes fecundity in females and a homosexual sexual orientation in males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5158b.html

The first shows that it is evolutionary advantageous for a society to have homosexuals and the 2nd gives credence to the "gay gene" hypothesis. In light of these two things, can religions continue to accuse homosexuality of being unnatural and/or morally wrong? And how should this research affect the socio-political nature of the debate over equal rights?
Why Evolution is True
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thatoneguy
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Post #61

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xcept, I would like to ask that you answer just one question. Answer it honestly, think really hard and try to picture yourself in this situation:

Could you, right now, decide to be gay?

I am not asking if you would, I am asking if you even have the capacity. You wouldn't want to go become a crack addict, but you would certainly have the capacity to if you had access to crack. Could you choose to be gay?

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Post #62

Post by nygreenguy »

T-mash wrote:
It's physically impossible to harden your heart and it is also not what you use to learn.
You havent held the heart of a smoker/obese person. :)

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Post #63

Post by xcept »

nygreenguy wrote:
T-mash wrote:
It's physically impossible to harden your heart and it is also not what you use to learn.
You havent held the heart of a smoker/obese person. :)
I belive this one liner is against the rules and also adding humor and as well being racist against obese people and not to mention smokers have rights too. Shouldn't talk bad about them. Obese people are people too.

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Post #64

Post by thatoneguy »

xcept wrote:
nygreenguy wrote:
T-mash wrote:
It's physically impossible to harden your heart and it is also not what you use to learn.
You havent held the heart of a smoker/obese person. :)
I belive this one liner is against the rules and also adding humor and as well being racist against obese people and not to mention smokers have rights too. Shouldn't talk bad about them. Obese people are people too.
It was a joke, and possibly not even false. And what does any of that have to do with their rights?

And you still haven't answered my question.

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Post #65

Post by Cathar1950 »

xcept wrote:
nygreenguy wrote:
T-mash wrote:
It's physically impossible to harden your heart and it is also not what you use to learn.
You havent held the heart of a smoker/obese person. :)
I belive this one liner is against the rules and also adding humor and as well being racist against obese people and not to mention smokers have rights too. Shouldn't talk bad about them. Obese people are people too.
A racist is biased or bigoted against races not fat.
Also obesity is a medical condition not a slam. I am guessing he was referring to hardening of the arteries and such and I am not sure he mean to be funny while you comment is funny as it shows your lack of understanding.

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Post #66

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xcept wrote:Yes, I should've clarified, there is no english word called gat. I assumed since we were debating in english and not in Hangul that I would be referring to such. I saw all those examples as well but nothing in english.

Homosexuality is a choice just as doing crack is a choice. Once they do it then they feel that must be what they are supposed to do. That's how evil works. The most used tool of satan is discouragement. A drug addict, sex addict merely needs to be encouraged to know they can rise above their circumstances and get out of their situation. That's what Christ does, He encourages us and gives us all Hope. Without hope we are.... hopeless.
in my opinion, people who make this statement are missing something. You compare homosexuality to doing crack - this is an extremely poor analogy. If I may, I'll use drinking and alcoholism instead, as they fit better.
[row] what is it to drink? drinking is an action. this action is a choice - it may be a very hard one not to make when you are addicted, but it's a choice. [row] Why do alcoholics drink? Because they are addicted. being addicted means that you have strong urges to drink and feel bad when you are not doing it and in withdrawal. Being an alchoholic is not a choice.

The closest comparison you could make, would be to say that homosexuals are addicted to people of the same gender. lets follow this(even though i don't support the idea that homosexuality is an 'addiction')
if this is true then
[row] What is homosexual sex? Homosexual sex is an action. This action is a choice. it can be an extremely hard one to deny when you are in love with a person(I must assume). [row] What is it to be homosexual? To be homosexual is to have strong sexual urges and feelings(as well as romantic feelings) toward members of the same sex. Being homosexual is not a choice.
Having urges/desires is not a choice. how you act on them is, but they themselves are not. so comparing homosexuality to recreational drug use is extremely flawed. You are comparing having certain feelings to performing an action. The closest you could compare would be to make an analogy between drug addiction and homosexuality, and drug use and homosexual sex. However, this is still flawed, because it attempts to take advantage of the negative connotation of drug addiction. drug addiction is unambiguously harmful to the person doing it. Homosexuality is not.
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

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Post #67

Post by thatoneguy »

FinalEnigma, I think it's also worth pointing out that becoming addicted, while not a choice, is a side effect of one's own actions, which are choices (i.e. the original choice to drink before addiction). There is no decision that triggers or has a chance of triggering homosexuality.

Also, I know xcept hasn't been on in the mean time, but what about my question?

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Post #68

Post by FinalEnigma »

thatoneguy wrote:FinalEnigma, I think it's also worth pointing out that becoming addicted, while not a choice, is a side effect of one's own actions, which are choices (i.e. the original choice to drink before addiction). There is no decision that triggers or has a chance of triggering homosexuality.

Also, I know xcept hasn't been on in the mean time, but what about my question?
thank you, that's true. I should have included that, but wasn't looking to origins of the situation.
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

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Post #69

Post by otseng »

xcept wrote:is english a second language for you?
Moderator warning:

This would be considered an ad hom comment. And the sarcasm should be left out as well.

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Post #70

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 65:

Another good post by FinalEngima, y'all need to read more of his stuff...
FinalEnigma wrote: Having urges/desires is not a choice. how you act on them is, but they themselves are not. so comparing homosexuality to recreational drug use is extremely flawed. You are comparing having certain feelings to performing an action. The closest you could compare would be to make an analogy between drug addiction and homosexuality, and drug use and homosexual sex. However, this is still flawed, because it attempts to take advantage of the negative connotation of drug addiction. drug addiction is unambiguously harmful to the person doing it. Homosexuality is not.
When folks key on on the act of homosexuality, and not the emotional causes, I think we'll see they are more repulsed by the behavior, and think little of why the behavior may come about. I think there's support in this statement by noticing how often homosexuality is compared to other gross behaviors (paedophilia, bestiality, etc. - which actually also contain an emotional component). When we place so much emotional baggage on the act, and not on why the act my be happening, we gloss over or hide the reasons why folks would act. Here then we actually condemn folks for what they "feel in their heart" moreso than what they do. We tend to forget that more often than not the act itself is committed by consenting folks who just happen to enjoy sex with their own gender.

Surely if we are to declare homosexuality as the "monster" it is so often portrayed to be, we'd find some other reason than the act itself, which I would dare say usually contains the same love, passion, and other "feel good" aspects we heterosexuals experience.

Then we get back to the OP, and see that homosexuality is a "force of nature". There's good reason to think it is a product of evolution (and not satan, evil, "the fall" or some other unprovable force).

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