New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Scotracer
Guru
Posts: 1772
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:25 pm
Location: Scotland

New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Post #1

Post by Scotracer »

Here's two papers on homosexuality and how it ties in with evolution. Up until now it had been a mystery how homosexuality had still been evident in a population since it appeared to be detrimental to fertility.
New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line.

There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one. This suggested that genetic factors that are partly linked to the X-chromosome and that influence homosexual orientation in males are not selected against because they increase fecundity in female carriers, thus offering a solution to the Darwinian paradox and an explanation of why natural selection does not progressively eliminate homosexuals. Since then, new data have emerged suggesting not only an increase in maternal fecundity but also larger paternal family sizes for homosexuals. These results are partly conflicting and indicate the need for a replication on a wider sample with a larger geographic distribution. This study examined the family trees of 250 male probands, of which 152 were homosexuals. The results confirmed the study of Camperio Ciani et al. (2004). We observed a significant fecundity increase even in primiparous mothers, which was not evident in the previous study. No evidence of increased paternal fecundity was found; thus, our data confirmed a sexually antagonistic inheritance partly linked to the X-chromosome that promotes fecundity in females and a homosexual sexual orientation in males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5158b.html

The first shows that it is evolutionary advantageous for a society to have homosexuals and the 2nd gives credence to the "gay gene" hypothesis. In light of these two things, can religions continue to accuse homosexuality of being unnatural and/or morally wrong? And how should this research affect the socio-political nature of the debate over equal rights?
Why Evolution is True
Universe from nothing

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
- Christopher Hitchens

cnorman18

New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Post #151

Post by cnorman18 »

superimposed wrote:
Yeah actually if you read right, the guy flipped me off which was the reason I backed up and he took a swing at me when I asked him why he flipped me off. Which is all self defense on my part.
Uh, no. Any claim to self-defense was invalidated when you responded to bring flipped off. When you backed up the car and got out, you were knowingly and intentionally initiating a confrontation that could lead to violence instead of avoiding it. You have no defense, legally speaking, not even if the other guy swung first. Ask any lawyer.

I noticed how quickly you are getting your panties in a bunch when you feel insulted because of some random thing that I did years ago and call it gay bashing...
If you were telling the truth, it WAS gay-bashing. Literally.

And I'm not insulted, I'm amused that anyone with that little self-awareness and that poorly developed a moral sense would presume to lecture others on moral behavior.

Try to understand that the problem here is that you are a bigot, not that nobody understands why your bigotry is justified.

...but its perfectly alright for you to call that which I hold hope a hoax.
I have never done that, and it would be irrelevant if I had. Your belief, no matter what it is, does not justify committing a felony - which you brought up, by the way.

Don't whine about the injustice of it all when you lead with your chin. I have nothing to say about your religion except that you have some very strange ideas about what it teaches and what it makes you (you seem to think it makes you smarter and wiser and more moral than others, none of which is true).

You bash God, Christians, the Bible, Christ and Christianity daily in here.
It's a debate site in a real world where not everyone agrees with you or accepts your beliefs or your "authority." Get over it.

If you don't like honest criticism and vigorous debate, go away. Nobody's forcing you to post here.

But I'm the one that's supposed to be all happy go lucky and forgiving right?
Beats me. But isn't that what the religion that you claim to follow teaches? Or have you taken a razor blade and deleted "turn the other cheek" and "return good for evil" from your Bible?

I'm sorry but I'm not that kind of Christian.
The kind that Jesus told you to be? No kidding.

What kind are you, then? The violent, bigoted kind? Which denomination is that, exactly? Who else does your Bible tell you it's okay to hate and laugh about assaulting?

I know I am saved and I have grace. I made be punished for my actions and regret them at judgement, but I will still see the kingdom of Heaven because I accept Christ died on the cross for my sins and nothing I do can take me from under that umbrella.
Really? You can murder somebody today and still go to Heaven? Just repent again and get forgiven, right?

I guess that shouldn't surprise me. You have already demonstrated that you can lie - that is, you have deliberately and knowingly disregarded rules which you agreed to follow when you joined this forum.


What kind of Christian wears a mask, disregards honesty and truth and ethics - and brags about beating up anybody, never mind gays?

"Saved"? Not for me to say - or you either. Beware of even hinting that I am not going to Heaven; you don't know that; and you have been told, have you not, that you will be judged by the same measure you judge others by.

Personally, I don't care to presume to speak for God and declare that I know His judgment about anyone, most especially myself. I seem to have read somewhere that declaring oneself entitled to sit at the head of the table is improper and unwise.

Humility is a Christian virtue too. Hard to find it on this site amid the smugness, the self-righteousness, the arrogance, the self-congratulating pride, and the self-absorption, but it's still around, even here.

cnorman18

apology

Post #152

Post by cnorman18 »

FinalEnigma wrote:I need to apologize for my behavior.

I'm over the line and I know it, and I apologize to the moderators and other forum members for my behavior, I am simply not in a mood just now to brook what appears to me to be this type of hate crime.

I'm going to stay off the forum for the remainder of the day, and hopefully gain control of my temper.

Again I apologize.

I'm a moderator, and I can't see that anything that you've said was out of line.

Your opponent, yes: but that will be dealt with again, just as it was dealt with before.

User avatar
Grumpy
Banned
Banned
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:58 am
Location: North Carolina

Post #153

Post by Grumpy »

superimposed
Yeah actually if you read right, the guy flipped me off which was the reason I backed up
He hurt your feelings, wounded your pride, but it was you who decided to escalate the situation to physical confrontation.
and he took a swing at me when I asked him why he flipped me off. Which is all self defense on my part.
In a court of law, you were equally at fault for forcing a confrontation. Self defence is only valid when you do everything you can to AVOID a confrontation and you must be in jeapardy of physical harm. You should have(by law and common decency)just driven away. Once he was on the ground that extra kick becomes assault, if you had motives driven by your obvious dislike of gays(fags was the perjoritive term you used)it is a Federal hate crime.

Growing up in the south in the 50s I saw too many instances of two or more good ol' boys beating the crap out of a black man and claiming he swung first, or he said something to a white girl, or just looked at a white girl, or drank from the wrong fountain. I see no difference between that and your admitted behavior toward a gay person.

Grumpy 8-)

User avatar
micatala
Site Supporter
Posts: 8338
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:04 pm
Has thanked: 1 time

Re: New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Post #154

Post by micatala »

Moderator Intervention

Let's remember what the topic for debate is here.

Scotracer wrote:Here's two papers on homosexuality and how it ties in with evolution. Up until now it had been a mystery how homosexuality had still been evident in a population since it appeared to be detrimental to fertility.
New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line.

There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one. This suggested that genetic factors that are partly linked to the X-chromosome and that influence homosexual orientation in males are not selected against because they increase fecundity in female carriers, thus offering a solution to the Darwinian paradox and an explanation of why natural selection does not progressively eliminate homosexuals. Since then, new data have emerged suggesting not only an increase in maternal fecundity but also larger paternal family sizes for homosexuals. These results are partly conflicting and indicate the need for a replication on a wider sample with a larger geographic distribution. This study examined the family trees of 250 male probands, of which 152 were homosexuals. The results confirmed the study of Camperio Ciani et al. (2004). We observed a significant fecundity increase even in primiparous mothers, which was not evident in the previous study. No evidence of increased paternal fecundity was found; thus, our data confirmed a sexually antagonistic inheritance partly linked to the X-chromosome that promotes fecundity in females and a homosexual sexual orientation in males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5158b.html

The first shows that it is evolutionary advantageous for a society to have homosexuals and the 2nd gives credence to the "gay gene" hypothesis. In light of these two things, can religions continue to accuse homosexuality of being unnatural and/or morally wrong? And how should this research affect the socio-political nature of the debate over equal rights?

Post Reply