New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

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Scotracer
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New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Post #1

Post by Scotracer »

Here's two papers on homosexuality and how it ties in with evolution. Up until now it had been a mystery how homosexuality had still been evident in a population since it appeared to be detrimental to fertility.
New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line.

There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one. This suggested that genetic factors that are partly linked to the X-chromosome and that influence homosexual orientation in males are not selected against because they increase fecundity in female carriers, thus offering a solution to the Darwinian paradox and an explanation of why natural selection does not progressively eliminate homosexuals. Since then, new data have emerged suggesting not only an increase in maternal fecundity but also larger paternal family sizes for homosexuals. These results are partly conflicting and indicate the need for a replication on a wider sample with a larger geographic distribution. This study examined the family trees of 250 male probands, of which 152 were homosexuals. The results confirmed the study of Camperio Ciani et al. (2004). We observed a significant fecundity increase even in primiparous mothers, which was not evident in the previous study. No evidence of increased paternal fecundity was found; thus, our data confirmed a sexually antagonistic inheritance partly linked to the X-chromosome that promotes fecundity in females and a homosexual sexual orientation in males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5158b.html

The first shows that it is evolutionary advantageous for a society to have homosexuals and the 2nd gives credence to the "gay gene" hypothesis. In light of these two things, can religions continue to accuse homosexuality of being unnatural and/or morally wrong? And how should this research affect the socio-political nature of the debate over equal rights?
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Post #71

Post by Bio-logical »

Just jumping in here, good thread so far in a way, way off topic in another, but I would like to throw out another question:

Xcept (or any other person who believes homosexuality is a choice), did you choose to be heterosexual? At what point in your life were you posed with the decision, "Should I decide to be attracted to women, or would men be a better idea?"

I know that I, for one, never made that choice, I just always lied girls as long as I can remember. Cleavage may have played a role, but that is another discussion.
Doubt is not the end, but only the beginning of pursuit.

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Post #72

Post by Cathar1950 »

Bio-logical wrote:Just jumping in here, good thread so far in a way, way off topic in another, but I would like to throw out another question:

Xcept (or any other person who believes homosexuality is a choice), did you choose to be heterosexual? At what point in your life were you posed with the decision, "Should I decide to be attracted to women, or would men be a better idea?"

I know that I, for one, never made that choice, I just always lied girls as long as I can remember. Cleavage may have played a role, but that is another discussion.
I think you meant I just always liked girls not "I always lied girls although it could be both as I have read where both sexes tend to put their best foot forward, a small form of a lie, while we should not overlook the phenomina of the proverbial Freudian slip.

I have to agree and I hardly feel that I have ever had the choice to like men.
There just isn't any attraction there and I can't imagine that being the only option.
It is the same for those that are attracted to me and not women as it is not a choice while I beliver the cause or reasons for homosexuality are complex and varied it is possible response and bound to happen to some and sure enough we see it even in the animal kingdom. But once all our ancestors were probably asexual.

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Post #73

Post by Cathar1950 »

joeyknuccione wrote:From Post 65:

Another good post by FinalEngima, y'all need to read more of his stuff...
FinalEnigma wrote: Having urges/desires is not a choice. how you act on them is, but they themselves are not. so comparing homosexuality to recreational drug use is extremely flawed. You are comparing having certain feelings to performing an action. The closest you could compare would be to make an analogy between drug addiction and homosexuality, and drug use and homosexual sex. However, this is still flawed, because it attempts to take advantage of the negative connotation of drug addiction. drug addiction is unambiguously harmful to the person doing it. Homosexuality is not.
When folks key on on the act of homosexuality, and not the emotional causes, I think we'll see they are more repulsed by the behavior, and think little of why the behavior may come about. I think there's support in this statement by noticing how often homosexuality is compared to other gross behaviors (paedophilia, bestiality, etc. - which actually also contain an emotional component). When we place so much emotional baggage on the act, and not on why the act my be happening, we gloss over or hide the reasons why folks would act. Here then we actually condemn folks for what they "feel in their heart" moreso than what they do. We tend to forget that more often than not the act itself is committed by consenting folks who just happen to enjoy sex with their own gender.

Surely if we are to declare homosexuality as the "monster" it is so often portrayed to be, we'd find some other reason than the act itself, which I would dare say usually contains the same love, passion, and other "feel good" aspects we heterosexuals experience.

Then we get back to the OP, and see that homosexuality is a "force of nature". There's good reason to think it is a product of evolution (and not satan, evil, "the fall" or some other unprovable force).
When we speak of acts as a choice we should mean it in the same way we mean our heterosexual acts are a choice so we don't ignore attractions and make homosexuality merely an act, behavior or action. I tend to think it has always been with us. History is full of stories of the love between those of the same sexes and maybe the maturity of a culture is the ability to see themselves in others and themselves.
I wonder if this was much of an issue 200,000 to 2000 years ago that alone in the last 2000 years ago compared to today. I see it as a sign of a cultures decadence they it no longer can accept themselves and others but cultures evolve and mature and after the battles it moves along.

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Post #74

Post by T-mash »

Bio-logical wrote:Just jumping in here, good thread so far in a way, way off topic in another, but I would like to throw out another question:

Xcept (or any other person who believes homosexuality is a choice), did you choose to be heterosexual? At what point in your life were you posed with the decision, "Should I decide to be attracted to women, or would men be a better idea?"

I know that I, for one, never made that choice, I just always lied girls as long as I can remember. Cleavage may have played a role, but that is another discussion.
Actually Xcept appears to be correct. For example I've recently seen a great narrative of a person who was forced by Satan to be a homosexual and that demon got cast out and he has now chosen to be a heterosexual after some good counselling.

See this for example:
Isn’t this enough? Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex, wonderfully unfathomable natural world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?
- Tim Minchin

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Post #75

Post by FinalEnigma »

Cathar1950 wrote:
Bio-logical wrote:Just jumping in here, good thread so far in a way, way off topic in another, but I would like to throw out another question:

Xcept (or any other person who believes homosexuality is a choice), did you choose to be heterosexual? At what point in your life were you posed with the decision, "Should I decide to be attracted to women, or would men be a better idea?"

I know that I, for one, never made that choice, I just always lied girls as long as I can remember. Cleavage may have played a role, but that is another discussion.
I think you meant I just always liked girls not "I always lied girls although it could be both as I have read where both sexes tend to put their best foot forward, a small form of a lie, while we should not overlook the phenomina of the proverbial Freudian slip.


It is the same for those that are attracted to me and not women...
another Freudian slip? or are you just that sexy? :eyebrow:
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

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Post #76

Post by JoeyKnothead »

FinalEnigma wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:
Bio-logical wrote:Just jumping in here, good thread so far in a way, way off topic in another, but I would like to throw out another question:

Xcept (or any other person who believes homosexuality is a choice), did you choose to be heterosexual? At what point in your life were you posed with the decision, "Should I decide to be attracted to women, or would men be a better idea?"

I know that I, for one, never made that choice, I just always lied girls as long as I can remember. Cleavage may have played a role, but that is another discussion.
I think you meant I just always liked girls not "I always lied girls although it could be both as I have read where both sexes tend to put their best foot forward, a small form of a lie, while we should not overlook the phenomina of the proverbial Freudian slip.


It is the same for those that are attracted to me and not women...
another Freudian slip? or are you just that sexy? :eyebrow:
He's that sexy.

Has me wondering if I hadn't oughta make "the choice".

LOL

Not really, I dig on the chickies.

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Post #77

Post by Cathar1950 »

FinalEnigma wrote:
Cathar1950 wrote:
Bio-logical wrote:Just jumping in here, good thread so far in a way, way off topic in another, but I would like to throw out another question:

Xcept (or any other person who believes homosexuality is a choice), did you choose to be heterosexual? At what point in your life were you posed with the decision, "Should I decide to be attracted to women, or would men be a better idea?"

I know that I, for one, never made that choice, I just always lied girls as long as I can remember. Cleavage may have played a role, but that is another discussion.
I think you meant I just always liked girls not "I always lied girls although it could be both as I have read where both sexes tend to put their best foot forward, a small form of a lie, while we should not overlook the phenomena of the proverbial Freudian slip.


It is the same for those that are attracted to me and not women...
another Freudian slip? or are you just that sexy? :eyebrow:
I didn't catch that so I am not sure what to say except I am not sure any of them are attracted to me, if they are they never let on.
Wish fulfillment?

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Post #78

Post by superimposed »

The average lifespan of a homosexual male in America is 43...how is that considered an evolutionary advantage?

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Post #79

Post by Cathar1950 »

superimposed wrote:The average lifespan of a homosexual male in America is 43...how is that considered an evolutionary advantage?
It is a evolutionary advantage to our species as it helps women be attracted to men.

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Post #80

Post by Goat »

superimposed wrote:The average lifespan of a homosexual male in America is 43...how is that considered an evolutionary advantage?
It is because those families that have homosexual males in it have a much higher fertility rate. Higher fertility rate = reproductive advantage. Not for the homosexual individual per say, but for the family.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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