New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Scotracer
Guru
Posts: 1772
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:25 pm
Location: Scotland

New research shows that homosexuality is an advantage

Post #1

Post by Scotracer »

Here's two papers on homosexuality and how it ties in with evolution. Up until now it had been a mystery how homosexuality had still been evident in a population since it appeared to be detrimental to fertility.
New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: female fecundity increase in the maternal line.

There is a long-standing debate on the role of genetic factors influencing homosexuality because the presence of these factors contradicts the Darwinian prediction according to which natural selection should progressively eliminate the factors that reduce individual fecundity and fitness. Recently, however, Camperio Ciani, Corna, and Capiluppi (Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, Series B: Biological Sciences, 271, 2217-2221, 2004), comparing the family trees of homosexuals with heterosexuals, reported a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual probands from the maternal line but not in those related from the paternal one. This suggested that genetic factors that are partly linked to the X-chromosome and that influence homosexual orientation in males are not selected against because they increase fecundity in female carriers, thus offering a solution to the Darwinian paradox and an explanation of why natural selection does not progressively eliminate homosexuals. Since then, new data have emerged suggesting not only an increase in maternal fecundity but also larger paternal family sizes for homosexuals. These results are partly conflicting and indicate the need for a replication on a wider sample with a larger geographic distribution. This study examined the family trees of 250 male probands, of which 152 were homosexuals. The results confirmed the study of Camperio Ciani et al. (2004). We observed a significant fecundity increase even in primiparous mothers, which was not evident in the previous study. No evidence of increased paternal fecundity was found; thus, our data confirmed a sexually antagonistic inheritance partly linked to the X-chromosome that promotes fecundity in females and a homosexual sexual orientation in males.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18561014
A population-genetic model indicates that if there is a gene responsible for homosexual behaviour it can readily spread in populations. The model also predicts widespread bisexuality in humans.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 5158b.html

The first shows that it is evolutionary advantageous for a society to have homosexuals and the 2nd gives credence to the "gay gene" hypothesis. In light of these two things, can religions continue to accuse homosexuality of being unnatural and/or morally wrong? And how should this research affect the socio-political nature of the debate over equal rights?
Why Evolution is True
Universe from nothing

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
- Christopher Hitchens

User avatar
FinalEnigma
Site Supporter
Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:37 am
Location: Bryant, AR

Post #91

Post by FinalEnigma »

have any of you ever been exposed to homosexuality?
1) that's an ad hom
2) what does being exposed to homosexuality mean? if you mean 'have any of you known homosexuals' then yes, I have.
3) what's your point?

Have you lived in places like San Francisco? The philippines? Thailand? Anyone? You likely barely know many homosexuals. So in thailand and the philippines it is said that about 30% of men are gay there. This clearly shows there are other factors at work besides saying they were all born gay.
No it doesn't. Having a high percentage of homosexuals in a given population could mean that its genetic.
Male prostitution and child prostitution is a way to make money in these countries.
Emotional appeal. Child prostitution is irrelevant to homosexuality. further, is male prostitution worse than female prostitution?
The more rights an act like that is given, the more aggresive it becomes.
Unsupported opinion.
And yes I like side issues. A perfect example is smoking and smokers rights. They have pretty much been taken away from them in even some bars and most restaurants. Why take away the rights of a person that smokes. They chose to be a smoker, or maybe when they were young a friend showed them how to smoke and now their body needs the niccotine. Maybe they are actually adapted to having it in their body in order to feel relaxed. Same goes for an alcoholic. Why limit them and put laws on them. If they wish to harm themselves by smoking or drinking, its their right....right? This equates very evenly to homosexuality.
No, it doesn't. homosexuality is not, in itself, harmful. And even if it were, it would not be harmful to people who are not homosexual.
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

superimposed
Apprentice
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:13 am

Post #92

Post by superimposed »

Scotracer wrote:
superimposed wrote:
thatoneguy wrote:superimposed, do you believe homosexuality is a choice?
look back to the story of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve had a choice to obey Gods commandment and not eart from the tree of knowledge. The serpent being angry at God came and tempted Eve by lying to her and she believed it, then she told Adam to do the same because he trusted her and she took that trust and had his disobey God. After the fall they had the consequences for their actions. They were forgiven but the sin effect is still there. A person can be coaxed or tempted to have a man give him sexual please, and because they liked it, obviously the nerves and feeling is the same whether its a male or female doing the pleasing then the boy would like it and think it was great. Often times boys that do such is before they are intimate with a woman. So they think sex is sex and they will reason out why they did like it. They will say it can't be my fault. I must have been born that way. Its sad and very bad for the persons life who gets caught up in it.
So you're saying all homosexuals had sexual experiences with men when they were young?

I'm bisexual and I didn't. I grew up as a top-of-my-school student in a wealthy family and yet as I entered my teens I found I was attracted to both sexes. It was no choice, it was not forced upon me.
exactly my point. You were exposed to something in your teens. When you are easily influenced. Maybe watching too much of the Hardy Boys mysteries reruns, maybe a little too much Threes company". Lol ok those were jokes. But just because you blocked out or fail to remember what happened when you were young doesn't mean something didn happen. You certainly weren't born that way.

superimposed
Apprentice
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:13 am

Post #93

Post by superimposed »

FinalEnigma wrote:
have any of you ever been exposed to homosexuality?
1) that's an ad hom
2) what does being exposed to homosexuality mean? if you mean 'have any of you known homosexuals' then yes, I have.
3) what's your point?

Have you lived in places like San Francisco? The philippines? Thailand? Anyone? You likely barely know many homosexuals. So in thailand and the philippines it is said that about 30% of men are gay there. This clearly shows there are other factors at work besides saying they were all born gay.
No it doesn't. Having a high percentage of homosexuals in a given population could mean that its genetic.
Male prostitution and child prostitution is a way to make money in these countries.
Emotional appeal. Child prostitution is irrelevant to homosexuality. further, is male prostitution worse than female prostitution?
The more rights an act like that is given, the more aggresive it becomes.
Unsupported opinion.
And yes I like side issues. A perfect example is smoking and smokers rights. They have pretty much been taken away from them in even some bars and most restaurants. Why take away the rights of a person that smokes. They chose to be a smoker, or maybe when they were young a friend showed them how to smoke and now their body needs the niccotine. Maybe they are actually adapted to having it in their body in order to feel relaxed. Same goes for an alcoholic. Why limit them and put laws on them. If they wish to harm themselves by smoking or drinking, its their right....right? This equates very evenly to homosexuality.
No, it doesn't. homosexuality is not, in itself, harmful. And even if it were, it would not be harmful to people who are not homosexual.
again you're making many assumptions of things I have viewed first hand. Its more because of a society not genetic or inherited. Because gay fathers don't have gay children and it is never passed on ever. Purely a choice.
Homosexuality is harmful. Fecal matter is disease ridden. You get that stuff on your member, in your mouth, in an open sore, causes disease. This is a known fact. Man and woman were designed for each other perfectly. Even having consentual sex with your married wife from ass to other orifices can cause disease. Its highly unhealthy. A man having gay sex then bringing that home to his wife, can certainly harm her. A man having many sexual partners protected or unprotected is still dangerous whether its men or women he's sleeping with. The anus can house std"s just as much as a womans vag can.

User avatar
thatoneguy
Scholar
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:34 am
Location: USA

Post #94

Post by thatoneguy »

superimposed wrote:
thatoneguy wrote:superimposed, do you believe homosexuality is a choice?
look back to the story of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve had a choice to obey Gods commandment and not eart from the tree of knowledge. The serpent being angry at God came and tempted Eve by lying to her and she believed it, then she told Adam to do the same because he trusted her and she took that trust and had his disobey God. After the fall they had the consequences for their actions. They were forgiven but the sin effect is still there. A person can be coaxed or tempted to have a man give him sexual please, and because they liked it, obviously the nerves and feeling is the same whether its a male or female doing the pleasing then the boy would like it and think it was great. Often times boys that do such is before they are intimate with a woman. So they think sex is sex and they will reason out why they did like it. They will say it can't be my fault. I must have been born that way. Its sad and very bad for the persons life who gets caught up in it.
So, everyone homosexual was molested by a man when they were younger?

That's one hell of a claim. Can you even find one documented case of a boy who was molested by a man and turned out gay?

A significant portion of the population is gay or bisexual. Were they all raped? That's a big problem!

Also, you seem to be admitting it's not a choice. Does homosexuality between tow consenting males hurt anyone else? If not, then once the damage's done and they're gay, why not give them rights?

User avatar
thatoneguy
Scholar
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:34 am
Location: USA

Post #95

Post by thatoneguy »

superimposed wrote:A man having gay sex then bringing that home to his wife, can certainly harm her. A man having many sexual partners protected or unprotected is still dangerous whether its men or women he's sleeping with.
Yes, if a man cheats on his wife then that's a amoral either way.
A man having many sexual partners protected or unprotected is still dangerous whether its men or women he's sleeping with. The anus can house std"s just as much as a womans vag can.
So why is gay sex worse than regular sex?

superimposed
Apprentice
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:13 am

Post #96

Post by superimposed »

thatoneguy wrote:
superimposed wrote:A man having gay sex then bringing that home to his wife, can certainly harm her. A man having many sexual partners protected or unprotected is still dangerous whether its men or women he's sleeping with.
Yes, if a man cheats on his wife then that's a amoral either way.
A man having many sexual partners protected or unprotected is still dangerous whether its men or women he's sleeping with. The anus can house std"s just as much as a womans vag can.
So why is gay sex worse than regular sex?
regular sex with a woman whom you marry and stay with is the greatest gift to us. In fsct, the bible states that sex is our wedding present from God.
It is sex outside of marriage which is corrupt and wrong and causes disease. Not to mention people shooting others for cheating etc.

It doesn't have to be a mans wife he could have femal and male casual sex partners and this is easy to spread disease. The other partners may not know about each other that would make them a victim if they catch an STD for their promiscuous friend.

User avatar
FinalEnigma
Site Supporter
Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:37 am
Location: Bryant, AR

Post #97

Post by FinalEnigma »

superimposed wrote:
FinalEnigma wrote:
have any of you ever been exposed to homosexuality?
1) that's an ad hom
2) what does being exposed to homosexuality mean? if you mean 'have any of you known homosexuals' then yes, I have.
3) what's your point?

Have you lived in places like San Francisco? The philippines? Thailand? Anyone? You likely barely know many homosexuals. So in thailand and the philippines it is said that about 30% of men are gay there. This clearly shows there are other factors at work besides saying they were all born gay.
No it doesn't. Having a high percentage of homosexuals in a given population could mean that its genetic.
Male prostitution and child prostitution is a way to make money in these countries.
Emotional appeal. Child prostitution is irrelevant to homosexuality. further, is male prostitution worse than female prostitution?
The more rights an act like that is given, the more aggresive it becomes.
Unsupported opinion.
And yes I like side issues. A perfect example is smoking and smokers rights. They have pretty much been taken away from them in even some bars and most restaurants. Why take away the rights of a person that smokes. They chose to be a smoker, or maybe when they were young a friend showed them how to smoke and now their body needs the niccotine. Maybe they are actually adapted to having it in their body in order to feel relaxed. Same goes for an alcoholic. Why limit them and put laws on them. If they wish to harm themselves by smoking or drinking, its their right....right? This equates very evenly to homosexuality.
No, it doesn't. homosexuality is not, in itself, harmful. And even if it were, it would not be harmful to people who are not homosexual.
again you're making many assumptions of things I have viewed first hand.
Ad hom. also, you could not possibly prove that I'm making assumptions of things with which I have no experience. Address my arguments, not myself.
Its more because of a society not genetic or inherited. Because gay fathers don't have gay children and it is never passed on ever.
Prove that.
Purely a choice.
I'd say prove that, but you can't becasue it's wrong. are you telling me that scoto chose to be bisexual? didn't you say it was becasue he was abused(which he conveniently blocked out)?
Homosexuality is harmful. Fecal matter is disease ridden.
Unprotected sex is dengerous. What's your point?
You get that stuff on your member, in your mouth, in an open sore, causes disease. This is a known fact. Man and woman were designed for each other perfectly. Even having consentual sex with your married wife from ass to other orifices can cause disease. Its highly unhealthy.
Ahh, so having anal sex and then oral sex is bad? Regardless of the gender of the participants?
I can't imagine anyone actually doing that anyway.


A man having gay sex then bringing that home to his wife, can certainly harm her.
A man having sex with a woman, and then going home to his wife can certainly harm her too. You're arguing against adultery, not homosexuality.
A man having many sexual partners protected or unprotected is still dangerous whether its men or women he's sleeping with. The anus can house std"s just as much as a womans vag can.
so whats your point? That unprotected sex is bad? We know. that isn't relevant.
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

User avatar
FinalEnigma
Site Supporter
Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:37 am
Location: Bryant, AR

Post #98

Post by FinalEnigma »

superimposed wrote:
thatoneguy wrote:
superimposed wrote:A man having gay sex then bringing that home to his wife, can certainly harm her. A man having many sexual partners protected or unprotected is still dangerous whether its men or women he's sleeping with.
Yes, if a man cheats on his wife then that's a amoral either way.
A man having many sexual partners protected or unprotected is still dangerous whether its men or women he's sleeping with. The anus can house std"s just as much as a womans vag can.
So why is gay sex worse than regular sex?
regular sex with a woman whom you marry and stay with is the greatest gift to us. In fsct, the bible states that sex is our wedding present from God.
It is sex outside of marriage which is corrupt and wrong and causes disease.
Whoah, hold on. sex outside of marraige is wrong and corrupt and causes disease?
so two long term, monogamous partners that aren't married are going to get diseases from one another?
and someone with an std who gets married won't pass it on?
We do not hate others because of the flaws in their souls, we hate them because of the flaws in our own.

superimposed
Apprentice
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:13 am

Post #99

Post by superimposed »

You know, for science types, you sure haven't done much research before posing these assumptions. Go do a little researxch on the very things you are disagreeing with and you will be amazed at what you find out why debate a topic that you are so uninformed about? Isn't that what you folks are always telling me?

User avatar
Scotracer
Guru
Posts: 1772
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:25 pm
Location: Scotland

Post #100

Post by Scotracer »

superimposed wrote:
Scotracer wrote:
superimposed wrote:
thatoneguy wrote:superimposed, do you believe homosexuality is a choice?
look back to the story of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve had a choice to obey Gods commandment and not eart from the tree of knowledge. The serpent being angry at God came and tempted Eve by lying to her and she believed it, then she told Adam to do the same because he trusted her and she took that trust and had his disobey God. After the fall they had the consequences for their actions. They were forgiven but the sin effect is still there. A person can be coaxed or tempted to have a man give him sexual please, and because they liked it, obviously the nerves and feeling is the same whether its a male or female doing the pleasing then the boy would like it and think it was great. Often times boys that do such is before they are intimate with a woman. So they think sex is sex and they will reason out why they did like it. They will say it can't be my fault. I must have been born that way. Its sad and very bad for the persons life who gets caught up in it.
So you're saying all homosexuals had sexual experiences with men when they were young?

I'm bisexual and I didn't. I grew up as a top-of-my-school student in a wealthy family and yet as I entered my teens I found I was attracted to both sexes. It was no choice, it was not forced upon me.
exactly my point. You were exposed to something in your teens. When you are easily influenced. Maybe watching too much of the Hardy Boys mysteries reruns, maybe a little too much Threes company". Lol ok those were jokes. But just because you blocked out or fail to remember what happened when you were young doesn't mean something didn happen. You certainly weren't born that way.
Right, so you can make insultive comments and claims such as "you weren't born that way" with no justification. That's certainly reasoned debate....... :confused2:

I have first-hand experience of the things you are claiming and you are wrong in your assumptions. I know why suicide rates are so high for fellow LGBT people and it is people like you who deem it wrong yet it is evidenced throughout human history (going back many thousands of years...even before the old testament was written) and well documented in the animal kingdom. When you are growing up and are too terrified to be who you are because of those who are bigoted against whatever falls outside of their version of the status quo it can lead to a very lonely and depressive existence. Luckily I managed to get through that stage - but it was not easy and the way it is being thrown around here like it's no big deal is actually quite disgusting.
Why Evolution is True
Universe from nothing

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
- Christopher Hitchens

Post Reply