Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
Did Allah start Christianty?
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Burninglight
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A Troubled Man
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Post #381
When you put it that way, yes.Burninglight wrote:
You mean pseudoscience like we all came from a rock that produced an organic soup after millions of years of rain that eventually turned into cells, fish and apes and here we are?
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Burninglight
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Post #382
lol, as long as we understand each other. Evolutionist give it more scientific technical terms, but it all boils down to the same thing "a rock." Now the Bible says that Jesus is the Rock of our salvation. According to the Qur'an, Allah deceived people into believe Jesus died; so, if Allah didn't do that, Christianity wouldn't be here today.A Troubled Man wrote:When you put it that way, yes.Burninglight wrote:
You mean pseudoscience like we all came from a rock that produced an organic soup after millions of years of rain that eventually turned into cells, fish and apes and here we are?
Of course, I agree with you about your view on Islam, but I don't have the faith you have to believe all creation happened by chance with no designer. That is almost has ridiculous as believing Muhammad is God's prophet.
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Peace
Post #383
@Burninglight:
This makes me think what is the spirit, what is its purpose? But then I fall upon another contradiction in the Bible when I try to learn about it:
John 4:24: "God is a Spirit..."
John 5:37: "...ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape,"
So who have we not heard His voice? or seen His shape? This can't be Jesus (peace be upon him) since we have seen him. If this is God, then we have another problem:
Matthew 3:17: "this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." - it says that God was heard saying this.
So how can we not hear God, yet he was heard saying the above?
In Islam you are not judged on your thoughts but on your actions, in fact, you are rewarded if you put off a bad thought and don't act upon it.
Look at what this Lutheran Church says:
I quote The History of The Decline & Fall Of The Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon:
We know that God is truth:
It is not befitting of God's nature to lie, cause the moment He does, He ceases being God.
Aren't we of this world? and what do you mean the world (everything else, not humanity) rejects God's spirit? Isn't He the Creator of the world? I would believe humanity rejects the spirit, not His very Creation (everything else)...Regarding your comment on Spirit and the world cannot receive it and yet people are filled with the spirit. Uhmm, there isn't any contradictions. The world rejects God's Spirit, because the things in this world and its lusts are not of God. The world is in rebellion against God, but individuals can be filled with God's spirit.
This makes me think what is the spirit, what is its purpose? But then I fall upon another contradiction in the Bible when I try to learn about it:
John 4:24: "God is a Spirit..."
John 5:37: "...ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape,"
So who have we not heard His voice? or seen His shape? This can't be Jesus (peace be upon him) since we have seen him. If this is God, then we have another problem:
Matthew 3:17: "this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." - it says that God was heard saying this.
So how can we not hear God, yet he was heard saying the above?
For Christianity, it has everything to do with feelings since you have no evidence.This has nothing to do with feelings.
Disagree. Your feelings drive you to become great people and thus great leaders, just like Moses and Mohammad (peace be upon them).Our feelings make nice slaves but poor leaders.
Agree, but I don't agree God is a good or bad spirit. In the Christian OT God 'repents' from thoughts. That is ridiculous. So is he just like Angels and devils?There are evils spirits as well as good spirits.
In Islam you are not judged on your thoughts but on your actions, in fact, you are rewarded if you put off a bad thought and don't act upon it.
I respect your belief, so God is spirit, soul and body?Every person consists of a spirit, soul and body. I don't fully understand this but we are made in God's image and likeness.
Again, Allah means God, so of course God knows what you believe. Whether its true or not. I'm not so sure whether you understand the trinity, the word 'trinity' is no where to be found in the Bible. Isn't that enough? In fact, the first instance the word trinity was uttered was by Tertullian (c.155-230).Muhammad and Allah didn't understand the Christian trinity (The father, son and Holy Spirit)
Look at what this Lutheran Church says:
Equal in power? We know this isn't true in light of the Bible, in fact, we know one possess more knowledge than another, we also know that if they were equal in Power, the Power of God Almighty, it baffles me to think that men killed him.We teach that the one true God. is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, three distinct persons, but of one and the same divine essence, equal in power, equal in eternity, equal in majesty, because each person possesses the one divine essence .
Try explaining that to your children, compared to One God, many Prophets, one message.The father is Spirit the son is His word and His Spirit is Holy. there are no partners or associates.
Well at one point in time you did, especially in Arabia!Now if Christians believed like Muhammad or Allah did that the trinity consisted of father, mother and son, then there is a problem of association and partnership.
I quote The History of The Decline & Fall Of The Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon:
Pretty confusing huh?The Christians of the seventh century had insensibly relapsed into a semblance of paganism: their public and private vows were addressed to the relics and images that disgraced the temples of the East: the throne of the Almighty was darkened by the clouds of martyrs, and saints, and angels, the objects of popular veneration; and the Collyridian heretics, who flourished in the fruitful soil of Arabia, invested the Virgin Mary with the name and honours of a goddess.
Please show me where my explanation lacks? I specifically showed you that we DO NOT worship the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him)!Islam invented the word partner and associate for what they think consistutes Christianity, but they have the association / partnership built into their shahadah.
Yup, servant and messenger!Muslims must confess Muhammad as Allah's slave or they can't be Muslim.
Huh?They can't just say we believe in Allah the one and only true moon god; whoops, I mean god!
Are you calling God Satan? Do you know what the context of the verse in question is? In fact, none of the translators of the Qur'an use the word 'deceive', not even the non-Muslim ones!Allah is who he said "the best of deceivers" who is the father of lies in the Bible (Satan). I can see it no other way. Satan is smarter than people and he is the author of Islam, IMHO.
So where on Earth did you get your translation? I will ALSO explain the context of the verse so you can stop spreading this gossip once and for all.Arberry - "And they devised, and God devised, and God is the best of devisers." - The Noble Qur'an (3:54)
Yusuf Ali - And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
Pickthall: And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.
Sahih International: And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.
We know that God is truth:
So it can't be attributed that God plans or deceives in a negative lying way. It is not Allah who deceives the accursed people who tried to kill His Prophets, but it is they who deceived themselves. Lets stick to 'deceive' just so that your happy (even though it's nowhere to be found in any translation), it means Allah deceived the people by saving his Messiah, as they believed they killed him.This is because Allah is the Truth and because He gives life to the dead and because He has power over all things. (Surah al-Hajj 22:6)
It is not befitting of God's nature to lie, cause the moment He does, He ceases being God.
God is in control of all things, we believe the Apostles at that time knew God's plan and helped to save Jesus (peace be upon him). It is the absence of an accurate historical text from this time that we will never know.If it were true that Allah fooled people into believing Jesus died then he is the author of Chrisitanity.
We believe God created all religions, as Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to the 'lost sheep of the children of Israel', not all of mankind, whoever followed him and believed in God was saved. The only problem we have is the error riddled text that you claim to be God's very words and the polytheistic belief of three entities of God. Can you explain to me what language God spoke? Wasn't the Bible originally in Hebrew? Isn't THAT God's word?He created a religion that is stronger than Islam.
Yes very ridiculous, coming from someone who believes a virgin to be the mother of her Creator or Creator's son. How absurd.Of course, I agree with you about your view on Islam, but I don't have the faith you have to believe all creation happened by chance with no designer. That is almost has ridiculous as believing Muhammad is God's prophet.
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Nickman
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Re: Did Allah start Christianty?
Post #384Jesus and Allah never existed. Muhammad was someone who took the stories and embellished them to get young poonanny like Joseph Smith.Burninglight wrote: Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
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Peace
Post #385
@Nickman:
Would you like to join our discussion? or maybe direct me to a thread where I would love to debate every single word in your sentence, haha
Lol! That's funny...Jesus and Allah never existed. Muhammad was someone who took the stories and embellished them to get young poonanny like Joseph Smith.
Would you like to join our discussion? or maybe direct me to a thread where I would love to debate every single word in your sentence, haha
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A Troubled Man
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Post #386
Yes, I understand the religiously indoctrinated cling to beliefs such as that because they have no understanding of science.Burninglight wrote:
Of course, I agree with you about your view on Islam, but I don't have the faith you have to believe all creation happened by chance with no designer.
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Burninglight
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Post #387
True Biblical Christians do not believe that Mary is God's mother. You have been deceived by your religion to believe this true.Peace wrote: @Burninglight:
Aren't we of this world? and what do you mean the world (everything else, not humanity) rejects God's spirit? Isn't He the Creator of the world? I would believe humanity rejects the spirit, not His very Creation (everything else)...Regarding your comment on Spirit and the world cannot receive it and yet people are filled with the spirit. Uhmm, there isn't any contradictions. The world rejects God's Spirit, because the things in this world and its lusts are not of God. The world is in rebellion against God, but individuals can be filled with God's spirit.
This makes me think what is the spirit, what is its purpose? But then I fall upon another contradiction in the Bible when I try to learn about it:
John 4:24: "God is a Spirit..."
John 5:37: "...ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape,"
So who have we not heard His voice? or seen His shape? This can't be Jesus (peace be upon him) since we have seen him. If this is God, then we have another problem:
Matthew 3:17: "this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." - it says that God was heard saying this.
So how can we not hear God, yet he was heard saying the above?
For Christianity, it has everything to do with feelings since you have no evidence.This has nothing to do with feelings.
Disagree. Your feelings drive you to become great people and thus great leaders, just like Moses and Mohammad (peace be upon them).Our feelings make nice slaves but poor leaders.
Agree, but I don't agree God is a good or bad spirit. In the Christian OT God 'repents' from thoughts. That is ridiculous. So is he just like Angels and devils?There are evils spirits as well as good spirits.
In Islam you are not judged on your thoughts but on your actions, in fact, you are rewarded if you put off a bad thought and don't act upon it.
I respect your belief, so God is spirit, soul and body?Every person consists of a spirit, soul and body. I don't fully understand this but we are made in God's image and likeness.
Again, Allah means God, so of course God knows what you believe. Whether its true or not. I'm not so sure whether you understand the trinity, the word 'trinity' is no where to be found in the Bible. Isn't that enough? In fact, the first instance the word trinity was uttered was by Tertullian (c.155-230).Muhammad and Allah didn't understand the Christian trinity (The father, son and Holy Spirit)
Look at what this Lutheran Church says:
Equal in power? We know this isn't true in light of the Bible, in fact, we know one possess more knowledge than another, we also know that if they were equal in Power, the Power of God Almighty, it baffles me to think that men killed him.We teach that the one true God. is the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, three distinct persons, but of one and the same divine essence, equal in power, equal in eternity, equal in majesty, because each person possesses the one divine essence .
Try explaining that to your children, compared to One God, many Prophets, one message.The father is Spirit the son is His word and His Spirit is Holy. there are no partners or associates.
Well at one point in time you did, especially in Arabia!Now if Christians believed like Muhammad or Allah did that the trinity consisted of father, mother and son, then there is a problem of association and partnership.
I quote The History of The Decline & Fall Of The Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon:
Pretty confusing huh?The Christians of the seventh century had insensibly relapsed into a semblance of paganism: their public and private vows were addressed to the relics and images that disgraced the temples of the East: the throne of the Almighty was darkened by the clouds of martyrs, and saints, and angels, the objects of popular veneration; and the Collyridian heretics, who flourished in the fruitful soil of Arabia, invested the Virgin Mary with the name and honours of a goddess.
Please show me where my explanation lacks? I specifically showed you that we DO NOT worship the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him)!Islam invented the word partner and associate for what they think consistutes Christianity, but they have the association / partnership built into their shahadah.
Yup, servant and messenger!Muslims must confess Muhammad as Allah's slave or they can't be Muslim.
Huh?They can't just say we believe in Allah the one and only true moon god; whoops, I mean god!
Are you calling God Satan? Do you know what the context of the verse in question is? In fact, none of the translators of the Qur'an use the word 'deceive', not even the non-Muslim ones!Allah is who he said "the best of deceivers" who is the father of lies in the Bible (Satan). I can see it no other way. Satan is smarter than people and he is the author of Islam, IMHO.
So where on Earth did you get your translation? I will ALSO explain the context of the verse so you can stop spreading this gossip once and for all.Arberry - "And they devised, and God devised, and God is the best of devisers." - The Noble Qur'an (3:54)
Yusuf Ali - And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
Pickthall: And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.
Sahih International: And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.
We know that God is truth:
So it can't be attributed that God plans or deceives in a negative lying way. It is not Allah who deceives the accursed people who tried to kill His Prophets, but it is they who deceived themselves. Lets stick to 'deceive' just so that your happy (even though it's nowhere to be found in any translation), it means Allah deceived the people by saving his Messiah, as they believed they killed him.This is because Allah is the Truth and because He gives life to the dead and because He has power over all things. (Surah al-Hajj 22:6)
It is not befitting of God's nature to lie, cause the moment He does, He ceases being God.
God is in control of all things, we believe the Apostles at that time knew God's plan and helped to save Jesus (peace be upon him). It is the absence of an accurate historical text from this time that we will never know.If it were true that Allah fooled people into believing Jesus died then he is the author of Chrisitanity.
We believe God created all religions, as Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to the 'lost sheep of the children of Israel', not all of mankind, whoever followed him and believed in God was saved. The only problem we have is the error riddled text that you claim to be God's very words and the polytheistic belief of three entities of God. Can you explain to me what language God spoke? Wasn't the Bible originally in Hebrew? Isn't THAT God's word?He created a religion that is stronger than Islam.
Yes very ridiculous, coming from someone who believes a virgin to be the mother of her Creator or Creator's son. How absurd.Of course, I agree with you about your view on Islam, but I don't have the faith you have to believe all creation happened by chance with no designer. That is almost has ridiculous as believing Muhammad is God's prophet.
No true Biblical Christians believes God consists of body, soul and spirit just like a man. God is Spirit no flesh and bones like Mormons believe. Jn 4
You have misconceptions about John 5: 37. Jesus was talking to the Jews who doubted that Jesus was a true prophet not to believers..
About Allah being "the best of deceivers" Deceiver means: Synonyms: deceive, betray, mislead, beguile, delude, dupe, hoodwink, bamboozle, double-cross
These verbs mean to lead another into error, danger, or a disadvantageous position by underhand means. Deceive involves the deliberate misrepresentation of the truth: "We are inclined to believe those whom we do not know, because they have never deceived us" (Samuel Johnson).
Betray implies treachery: "When you betray somebody else, you also betray yourself" (Isaac Bashevis Singer).
Mislead means to lead in the wrong direction or into error of thought or action: "My manhood, long misled by wandering fires,/Followed false lights" (John Dryden).
Beguile suggests deceiving by means of charm or allure: They beguiled unwary investors with tales of overnight fortunes.
To delude is to mislead the mind or judgment. The government deluded the public about the dangers of low-level radiation.
Dupe implies playing upon another's susceptibilities or naiveté: The shoppers were duped by false advertising.
Hoodwink refers to deluding by trickery: It is difficult to hoodwink a smart lawyer.
Bamboozle means to delude by the use of such tactics as hoaxing or artful persuasion.
If you look at schemer and plotter it is all in the same family of deception and underhanded trickery. This is what Allah has done and will do to his slaves in the end when he reveals who he really is Satan the father of all lies "The Best of Deceivers."
You are quoting English translation of that verse that are not honest. In the Arabic it is "The Best of Deceivers" In context it means "Makr" deceiver. In context Allah is doing best what the people were doing scheming underhanded planning deceiving and deception are involved. You are obviously being obtuse and out smarting yourself by mine quoting from the Bible and trying to twist Scripture to say what you want by reading out of context. This is all part of scheming and deception. You are to just like your god who is no God at all or Creator.
Even Allah outsmarted himself by deceiving people to believe Jesus died starting a religion more powerful and larger than Islam lol
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Burninglight
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Re: Did Allah start Christianty?
Post #388Yea, right there is no god only the arm of the flesh, man power and muscle lolNickman wrote:Jesus and Allah never existed. Muhammad was someone who took the stories and embellished them to get young poonanny like Joseph Smith.Burninglight wrote: Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
Post #389
@ Peace
QUOTE: "Trust me, A Troubled Man has a special place in my heart and created a special appreciation withing my self for 'citing evidence'. lol, but we should still have Patience, we aren't doing this for him, but for whoever is reading this (a friend of mine gave me this advice once  ) and those users who wish to present evidence and who are truly here to debate and search for truth.Â
Hope this has helped!"
ANSWER: I think A Troubled Man has had an enormous influence on both our hearts for "citing evidence" lol I think your friend was right we need to have more patience, Â your absolutely correct people who are polite and have an open heart will debate in a civilized manner and avoid slandering people when unable to produce any evidence, instead they will exchange evidence with one another in a effective and intelligent manner.
QUOTE: "Trust me, A Troubled Man has a special place in my heart and created a special appreciation withing my self for 'citing evidence'. lol, but we should still have Patience, we aren't doing this for him, but for whoever is reading this (a friend of mine gave me this advice once  ) and those users who wish to present evidence and who are truly here to debate and search for truth.Â
Hope this has helped!"
ANSWER: I think A Troubled Man has had an enormous influence on both our hearts for "citing evidence" lol I think your friend was right we need to have more patience, Â your absolutely correct people who are polite and have an open heart will debate in a civilized manner and avoid slandering people when unable to produce any evidence, instead they will exchange evidence with one another in a effective and intelligent manner.
Post #390
@ A Troubled Man
QUOTE: "The evidence rests in the fact that there is no evidence Muhammad talked with an angel, therefore he obviously made it up himself. There is no other explanation"
ANSWER: The evidence lies in the Quran, and in what God makes evident to us. The Prophets companions testify to this also, Angel Gabriel (peace be upon him) spoke to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) directly, with no barrier in between, and the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw him in his true form. This was reported in many verses of the Quran and Hadith:
 God says (interpretation of the meaning):
 “By the star when it goes down (or vanishes).
Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.
Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.
It is only a Revelation revealed.
He has been taught (this Qur’aan) by one mighty in power [Jibreel (Gabriel)].�
[al-Najm 53:1-5]
 What is meant by “one mighty in power� is Angel Gabriel (peace be upon him), who taught Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) the Revelation. One of the ways in which Revelation happened is when the angel spoke directly to the Prophet (peace be upon him). This indicates that Gabriel (peace be upon him) spoke to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This idea is also supported by the verses:
 “And truly, this (the Qur’aan) is a revelation from the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists),
Which the trustworthy Rooh [Jibreel (Gabriel)] has brought down
Upon your heart (O Muhammad) that you may be (one) of the warners,
In the plain Arabic language�
[al-Shu’araa’ 26:192-195]
 “Say (O Muhammad): “Whoever is an enemy to Jibreel (Gabriel) (let him die in his fury), for indeed he has brought it (this Qur’aan) down to your heart by Allaah’s Permission, confirming what came before it [i.e. the Tauraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] and guidance and glad tidings for the believers�
[al-Baqarah 2:97]
 The First Revelation, as is well known, happened when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was in seclusion in the cave of Hiraa’. Jibreel (peace be upon him) came to him and commanded him to read.  It was narrated that Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers (may Allaah be pleased with her) said:
“The first of the Wahy (Revelation) that came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was seeing true dreams; he never saw any dream but it came true like the break of day. Then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go into seclusion in the cave of Hiraa’ where he would worship Allaah continuously for many nights, until he went back to see his family to collect more provisions. He would go back to Khadeejah, and take provisions with him for a similar number of nights. (This went on) until the truth came to him when he was in the cave of Hiraa’. The angels came to him and said, ‘Read!’ He said, ‘I am not a reader.’ He [the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] said: he embraced me and squeezed me so hard that I almost could bear it no longer, then he released me and said, ‘Read!’ I said, I am not a reader.’ Then he embraced me a second time and squeezed me so hard that I almost could bear it no longer, then he released me and said, ‘Read!’ I said, I am not a reader.’ Then he embraced me a third time and squeezed me so hard that I almost could bear it no longer, then he released me and said, ‘Read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists). He has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood). Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.’ [al-‘Alaq 96:1-3 – interpretation of the meaning]. Then the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came back with (the Revelation) and with his heart pounding wildly.â€� (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 3; Muslim, no. 231).Â
It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that al-Haarith ibn Hishaam (may Allaah be pleased with him) asked the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “O Messenger of Allaah, how does the Revelation come to you?� The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Sometimes it comes to me like the ringing of a bell, which is the hardest of all, then it passes once I have grasped what is said. And sometimes the angel comes to me in the form of a man and speaks to me, and I grasp what he says…� (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 2).
 The lengthy hadeeth about Jibreel, when he came in the form of a man, a stranger, and sat down with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and asked him about Islam, Eemaan (faith) and Ihsaan (goodness, perfection). The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) answered his questions, knowing that he was Jibreel. When he had finished asking his questions and had gone away, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told his companions that this was Jibreel, who had come to teach them their religion. See Saheeh al-Bukhaari, no. 48; Muslim, no. 9.
 The reports about the Israa’ and Mi’raaj (Prophet’s night journey from Makkah to Jerusalem, and ascent from Jerusalem into the seven heavens). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) asked Jibreel questions, and Jibreel answered him. See Saheeh al-Bukhaari, no. 2968; Muslim, no. 238, and the ahaadeeth which tell the story of the Israa’ and Mi’raaj.
 There are also many ahaadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) says, “Jibreel came to me and said…�, such as the hadeeth in which he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Jibreel (peace be upon him) came to me and said, ‘Whoever among your ummah (nation) dies not  associating anything with Allaah, will enter Paradise.’ I said, ‘Even if he does such and such?’ He said, ‘Yes.’� (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 2213; Muslim, no. 137)
 When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came back from (the battle of) al-Khandaq, he and his companions put down their weapons and washed themselves. Jibreel came to him with his head covered with dust and said, “You have put down your weapons! By Allaah, I have not put down mine.� The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Where to?� He said, “Over there� – and pointed towards Bani Qurayzah. So the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) set out [to resume the campaign]. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 2602; Muslim, no. 3315).
QUOTE: "The evidence rests in the fact that there is no evidence Muhammad talked with an angel, therefore he obviously made it up himself. There is no other explanation"
ANSWER: The evidence lies in the Quran, and in what God makes evident to us. The Prophets companions testify to this also, Angel Gabriel (peace be upon him) spoke to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) directly, with no barrier in between, and the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw him in his true form. This was reported in many verses of the Quran and Hadith:
 God says (interpretation of the meaning):
 “By the star when it goes down (or vanishes).
Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.
Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.
It is only a Revelation revealed.
He has been taught (this Qur’aan) by one mighty in power [Jibreel (Gabriel)].�
[al-Najm 53:1-5]
 What is meant by “one mighty in power� is Angel Gabriel (peace be upon him), who taught Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) the Revelation. One of the ways in which Revelation happened is when the angel spoke directly to the Prophet (peace be upon him). This indicates that Gabriel (peace be upon him) spoke to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This idea is also supported by the verses:
 “And truly, this (the Qur’aan) is a revelation from the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists),
Which the trustworthy Rooh [Jibreel (Gabriel)] has brought down
Upon your heart (O Muhammad) that you may be (one) of the warners,
In the plain Arabic language�
[al-Shu’araa’ 26:192-195]
 “Say (O Muhammad): “Whoever is an enemy to Jibreel (Gabriel) (let him die in his fury), for indeed he has brought it (this Qur’aan) down to your heart by Allaah’s Permission, confirming what came before it [i.e. the Tauraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] and guidance and glad tidings for the believers�
[al-Baqarah 2:97]
 The First Revelation, as is well known, happened when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was in seclusion in the cave of Hiraa’. Jibreel (peace be upon him) came to him and commanded him to read.  It was narrated that Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers (may Allaah be pleased with her) said:
“The first of the Wahy (Revelation) that came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was seeing true dreams; he never saw any dream but it came true like the break of day. Then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go into seclusion in the cave of Hiraa’ where he would worship Allaah continuously for many nights, until he went back to see his family to collect more provisions. He would go back to Khadeejah, and take provisions with him for a similar number of nights. (This went on) until the truth came to him when he was in the cave of Hiraa’. The angels came to him and said, ‘Read!’ He said, ‘I am not a reader.’ He [the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] said: he embraced me and squeezed me so hard that I almost could bear it no longer, then he released me and said, ‘Read!’ I said, I am not a reader.’ Then he embraced me a second time and squeezed me so hard that I almost could bear it no longer, then he released me and said, ‘Read!’ I said, I am not a reader.’ Then he embraced me a third time and squeezed me so hard that I almost could bear it no longer, then he released me and said, ‘Read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists). He has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood). Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.’ [al-‘Alaq 96:1-3 – interpretation of the meaning]. Then the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came back with (the Revelation) and with his heart pounding wildly.â€� (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 3; Muslim, no. 231).Â
It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that al-Haarith ibn Hishaam (may Allaah be pleased with him) asked the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “O Messenger of Allaah, how does the Revelation come to you?� The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Sometimes it comes to me like the ringing of a bell, which is the hardest of all, then it passes once I have grasped what is said. And sometimes the angel comes to me in the form of a man and speaks to me, and I grasp what he says…� (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 2).
 The lengthy hadeeth about Jibreel, when he came in the form of a man, a stranger, and sat down with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and asked him about Islam, Eemaan (faith) and Ihsaan (goodness, perfection). The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) answered his questions, knowing that he was Jibreel. When he had finished asking his questions and had gone away, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told his companions that this was Jibreel, who had come to teach them their religion. See Saheeh al-Bukhaari, no. 48; Muslim, no. 9.
 The reports about the Israa’ and Mi’raaj (Prophet’s night journey from Makkah to Jerusalem, and ascent from Jerusalem into the seven heavens). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) asked Jibreel questions, and Jibreel answered him. See Saheeh al-Bukhaari, no. 2968; Muslim, no. 238, and the ahaadeeth which tell the story of the Israa’ and Mi’raaj.
 There are also many ahaadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) says, “Jibreel came to me and said…�, such as the hadeeth in which he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Jibreel (peace be upon him) came to me and said, ‘Whoever among your ummah (nation) dies not  associating anything with Allaah, will enter Paradise.’ I said, ‘Even if he does such and such?’ He said, ‘Yes.’� (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 2213; Muslim, no. 137)
 When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came back from (the battle of) al-Khandaq, he and his companions put down their weapons and washed themselves. Jibreel came to him with his head covered with dust and said, “You have put down your weapons! By Allaah, I have not put down mine.� The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Where to?� He said, “Over there� – and pointed towards Bani Qurayzah. So the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) set out [to resume the campaign]. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, no. 2602; Muslim, no. 3315).
