witchcraft

[Telora]

Is there any middle ground between the actions that can be considered supernatural witchcraft and the faiths that directly forbid it, what exactly is forbidden and why?

[Ankhhape]

Pffft Jesus, just another person who never understood what magick really is!

[Divine Insight]

What Jesus did was not magic; so that renders your argument moot.

So you reject the claims that Jesus performed miracles as stated in the Gospels?

He didn't miraculously cure the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, turn water into wine, etc.

I don't blame you. I don't believe those superstitions either.

[Burninglight]

What Jesus did was not magic; so that renders your argument moot.

So you reject the claims that Jesus performed miracles as stated in the Gospels?

He didn't miraculously cure the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, turn water into wine, etc.

I don't blame you. I don't believe those superstitions either.

Yes, I beleive it, but miracles are not magic. Why don't you at least look up the definition?

[Goat]

What Jesus did was not magic; so that renders your argument moot.

So you reject the claims that Jesus performed miracles as stated in the Gospels?

He didn't miraculously cure the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, turn water into wine, etc.

I don't blame you. I don't believe those superstitions either.

Yes, I beleive it, but miracles are not magic. Why don't you at least look up the definition?

As far as I can see, the only difference is the claimed source of the woo. From a practical point of view, there is no difference.

Of course, one other thing they both have in common is zero evidence for them.

[Suluby]

In other words, when our religion does it, it is a miracle. When your religion does it, it is demonic. Yeah, right.

For every real thing there is a counterfeit. It doesn't just happen with money.

How can I tell that your religion is the genuine article and all the others are counterfeit?

Call on the name of the Lord and you will be saved. Taste and see that the Lord is good. Ask and you shall receive, seek and you'll find knock and the door will be opened. You need to ask the right questions and seek the right things and knock on big doors. Ask Jesus for discernment

How will I know I am saved? What must I be saved from?

"Taste and see that the Lord is good." That sounds more than a little cannibalistic ..... and gross!

"Ask and you shall receive, seek and you'll find" Ah ..... so Christians never want, are never in need ..... they get everything they need and want simply by asking and seeking!

This "discernment" you speak of ..... will you know I have it when I believe exactly what you believe? And you can tell I don't have it if I don't believe exactly what you believe?


Pretty words ..... but they don't give me a lot of information.

What info are you looking for? Cannibalistic and gross you say; well, if that is how you comprehend what I am saying, maybe you should give yourself that shot your holding in your hand. I take you're a nurse.

I was. And that needle is as much a fantasy as the information you've provided.

I'm told that Jesus is both human and god and then you tell me to taste him ..... what am I supposed to think you are talking about?? Maybe you need to explain yourself better ..... or avoid certain metaphors!

As I mentioned, you must ask the right questions, and seek for the right things and knock on the right doors. When you do, you'll receive and you'll be the first to know not I!

Oh, So you'll never know. But I'll know if I get it, but if I don't get it I won't know that I don't know. And that's how I'll know I don't have it.

Ooookay ..... that's as clear as a ........


well, that's not clear at all!

.

[Divine Insight]

Yes, I beleive it, but miracles are not magic. Why don't you at least look up the definition?

Dictionary definitions are meaningless when discussing this sort of thing. The reason being that there probably isn't a witch on Earth who would use a dictionary definition to describe what they consider to be "Magick".

In fact, as a witch myself, I prefer to spell spiritual magick with a "k" to distinguish it from stage magic which is merely the art of illusion or slight-of-hand.

So dictionary definitions are totally useless in this respect.

~~~~~

None the less just to humor you I looked up a couple definitions:

mir·a·cle/ˈmirikəl/ Noun - A surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is considered to be divine. - A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment.

By that definition a mere coincidence would potentially be a "miracle". Moreover, in this particular definition no reference to any God is even mentioned.

mag·ic/ˈmajik/ Noun: The power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

And by this dictionary definition the things that Jesus supposed did would definitely fall into the category of being "magic".

So looking up definitions doesn't appear to help your argument anyway.


Jesus was supposedly healing the sick (call it a miracle or magic it really doesn't matter) the Pharisees accused him of doing it using the power of Satan.

Jesus defense was that evil powers cannot be used to do good works lest the evil house stands against itself and falls. That was his own personal defense against the charges of using evil power to do good works.

Here it is straight from the Bible:

From Matthew:

[22] Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
[23] And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
[24] But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
[25] And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
[26] And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?


So there you go.

Good works cannot be performed using evil powers or the evil power will be divided against itself and a house divided against itself shall not stand.

So any witch who is doing good works through the use of magick can only be using the same divine powers as Jesus, based on Jesus own defense when accused of performing magick in the name of Satan.

Yet, you preach otherwise. You twist the words of Jesus and divide his house against him and thus render his house divided against itself.

Only one thing can be true from that. You cannot be of the same house as Jesus.

That's the only rational conclusion I can take from this.

[Burninglight]

Yes, I beleive it, but miracles are not magic. Why don't you at least look up the definition?

Dictionary definitions are meaningless when discussing this sort of thing. The reason being that there probably isn't a witch on Earth who would use a dictionary definition to describe what they consider to be "Magick".

In fact, as a witch myself, I prefer to spell spiritual magick with a "k" to distinguish it from stage magic which is merely the art of illusion or slight-of-hand.

So dictionary definitions are totally useless in this respect.

~~~~~

None the less just to humor you I looked up a couple definitions:

mir·a·cle/ˈmirikəl/ Noun - A surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is considered to be divine. - A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment.

By that definition a mere coincidence would potentially be a "miracle". Moreover, in this particular definition no reference to any God is even mentioned.

mag·ic/ˈmajik/ Noun: The power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

And by this dictionary definition the things that Jesus supposed did would definitely fall into the category of being "magic".

So looking up definitions doesn't appear to help your argument anyway.


Jesus was supposedly healing the sick (call it a miracle or magic it really doesn't matter) the Pharisees accused him of doing it using the power of Satan.

Jesus defense was that evil powers cannot be used to do good works lest the evil house stands against itself and falls. That was his own personal defense against the charges of using evil power to do good works.

Here it is straight from the Bible:

From Matthew:

[22] Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
[23] And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
[24] But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
[25] And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
[26] And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?


So there you go.

Good works cannot be performed using evil powers or the evil power will be divided against itself and a house divided against itself shall not stand.

So any witch who is doing good works through the use of magick can only be using the same divine powers as Jesus, based on Jesus own defense when accused of performing magick in the name of Satan.

Yet, you preach otherwise. You twist the words of Jesus and divide his house against him and thus render his house divided against itself.

Only one thing can be true from that. You cannot be of the same house as Jesus.

That's the only rational conclusion I can take from this.

Okay, which witch are you? You are the one that does magick which is not slight of hand, but using supernatural powers. Well, Satan is able to do signs and wonders even through his supernatural powers. So, how do you know your not getting your powers from him? He has those powers to give people even power to do something good for someone as he also drives them further from Christ

[Goat]

Okay, which witch are you? You are the one that does magick which is not slight of hand, but using supernatural powers. Well, Satan is able to do signs and wonders even through his supernatural powers. So, how do you know your not getting your powers from him? He has those powers to give people even power to do something good for someone as he also drives them further from Christ

We do know Satan was able to signs and wonders?? Really?? How do you know that? Can you show that Satan actually exists??

[Burninglight]

Okay, which witch are you? You are the one that does magick which is not slight of hand, but using supernatural powers. Well, Satan is able to do signs and wonders even through his supernatural powers. So, how do you know your not getting your powers from him? He has those powers to give people even power to do something good for someone as he also drives them further from Christ

We do know Satan was able to signs and wonders?? Really?? How do you know that? Can you show that Satan actually exists??

Can you show he doesn't?

[Goat]

Okay, which witch are you? You are the one that does magick which is not slight of hand, but using supernatural powers. Well, Satan is able to do signs and wonders even through his supernatural powers. So, how do you know your not getting your powers from him? He has those powers to give people even power to do something good for someone as he also drives them further from Christ

We do know Satan was able to signs and wonders?? Really?? How do you know that? Can you show that Satan actually exists??

Can you show he doesn't?

Nope.. can't.. but then again, I can't show leprechauns , and Bigfoot doesn't either.

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. The larger burden of proof on a the person making a positive claim rather than a negative claim.