Jehovah's Witnesses and the Trinity Part 1

[SiNcE_1985]

.

No excuses, Jesus is God.

We are gonna deal with these Trinity-Proof texts, one by one....using Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) own New World's Translation, while I use the New King James Version (NKJV)...and we are gonna expose their faulty NWT, as needed.

For this thread, we will examine the following three books and verses..

Isa 40:3 – Mark 1:1-8 – Malachi 3:1

Lets begin with Isa 40:3..

Isa 40:3
NKJV Isa 40:3 ”The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
NWT Isa 40:3 A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* the way of Jehovah! Make a straight highway through the desert for our God.

Now, as you can see, in comparison, both the NKJV and the NWT reads the same.

It is commanded that a clear path is made for God (Lord, Jehovah), because he is coming through!!

Ok, now, lets look at Malachi 3:1..

NKJV Mal 3:1 “Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the Lord of hosts.

NWT Mal 3:1  “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.

Virtually the same message, the Lord is coming...and the path is being cleared for him.

The significance? This is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus....and this messenger who clears the path for him, is John the Baptist.

How do we know?

Because, in Mark 1:1-8...

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in [a]the Prophets:

“Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’ ”

4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8 I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The implication is simple, Jesus is God.

Even in JW's own NWT Bible, it is said that the path (Isa 40:3) is being made clear for Jehovah/God.

The author of Mark connects the subject of the cleared path in the book of Isaiah (who is identified as Jehovah/God), to the subject of the path in his own book (who is identified as Jesus).

This is irrefutable evidence of the fact that; Jesus is God.

Anyone who has beef with this, let me know.

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #220]

Him who is true, and in his( who is true)------ son--2 beings, 1 is God 1 is the son.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #220]

Him who is true, and in his( who is true)------ son--2 beings, 1 is God 1 is the son.

No, my question was who has the "eternal life" in 1 John 5:11?
Hard to answer?

1Jn 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #220]

Him who is true, and in his( who is true)------ son--2 beings, 1 is God 1 is the son.

No, my question was who has the "eternal life" in 1 John 5:11?
Hard to answer?

1Jn 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

[face2face]

[Replying to Capbook in post #220]

Him who is true, and in his( who is true)------ son--2 beings, 1 is God 1 is the son.

No, my question was who has the "eternal life" in 1 John 5:11?
Hard to answer?

1Jn 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

If you believe that Jesus already possessed life within himself, that he had a divine, eternal nature then how could that life be something that was given to Him? You can’t be given something you already inherently have. If Christ always possessed life in himself, then it couldn’t have been granted to him.

To maintain this belief, you would almost have to align with the Jehovah's Witnesses’ view: that Jesus existed in some pre-human form, such as an angel or some immortal being, before being given life in himself. But this contradicts Trinitarian doctrine, which teaches that Jesus was eternally equal with God and always had this divine life.

So, your statement seems to undermine the Trinity itself since if life was given to Christ, he couldn’t have always had it, nor could he have been equal with the Father from eternity. The logic simply doesn’t hold unless you reinterpret or reject one of these positions.

Would you like to know how trinitarian theologians have handled this issue?

[face2face]

[Replying to Capbook in post #220]

Him who is true, and in his( who is true)------ son--2 beings, 1 is God 1 is the son.

No, my question was who has the "eternal life" in 1 John 5:11?
Hard to answer?

1Jn 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

If you believe that Jesus already possessed life within himself, that he had a divine, eternal nature then how could that life be something that was given to Him? You can’t be given something you already inherently have. If Christ always possessed life in himself, then it couldn’t have been granted to him.

To maintain this belief, you would almost have to align with the Jehovah's Witnesses’ view: that Jesus existed in some pre-human form, such as an angel or some immortal being, before being given life in himself. But this contradicts Trinitarian doctrine, which teaches that Jesus was eternally equal with God and always had this divine life.

So, your statement seems to undermine the Trinity itself since if life was given to Christ, he couldn’t have always had it, nor could he have been equal with the Father from eternity. The logic simply doesn’t hold unless you reinterpret or reject one of these positions.

Would you like to know how trinitarian theologians have handled this issue?

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #220]

Him who is true, and in his( who is true)------ son--2 beings, 1 is God 1 is the son.

No, my question was who has the "eternal life" in 1 John 5:11?
Hard to answer?

1Jn 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

If you believe that Jesus already possessed life within himself, that he had a divine, eternal nature then how could that life be something that was given to Him? You can’t be given something you already inherently have. If Christ always possessed life in himself, then it couldn’t have been granted to him.

To maintain this belief, you would almost have to align with the Jehovah's Witnesses’ view: that Jesus existed in some pre-human form, such as an angel or some immortal being, before being given life in himself. But this contradicts Trinitarian doctrine, which teaches that Jesus was eternally equal with God and always had this divine life.

So, your statement seems to undermine the Trinity itself since if life was given to Christ, he couldn’t have always had it, nor could he have been equal with the Father from eternity. The logic simply doesn’t hold unless you reinterpret or reject one of these positions.

Would you like to know how trinitarian theologians have handled this issue?

What a misinterpretation?
Does the text mentioned the word "given to Jesus" there? It is given to us.
Maybe you read your paraphrase translation again.
Jesus had said, "I am the way, the truth and the life".

[face2face]

[Replying to Capbook in post #220]

Him who is true, and in his( who is true)------ son--2 beings, 1 is God 1 is the son.

No, my question was who has the "eternal life" in 1 John 5:11?
Hard to answer?

1Jn 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

If you believe that Jesus already possessed life within himself, that he had a divine, eternal nature then how could that life be something that was given to Him? You can’t be given something you already inherently have. If Christ always possessed life in himself, then it couldn’t have been granted to him.

To maintain this belief, you would almost have to align with the Jehovah's Witnesses’ view: that Jesus existed in some pre-human form, such as an angel or some immortal being, before being given life in himself. But this contradicts Trinitarian doctrine, which teaches that Jesus was eternally equal with God and always had this divine life.

So, your statement seems to undermine the Trinity itself since if life was given to Christ, he couldn’t have always had it, nor could he have been equal with the Father from eternity. The logic simply doesn’t hold unless you reinterpret or reject one of these positions.

Would you like to know how trinitarian theologians have handled this issue?

What a misinterpretation?
Does the text mentioned the word "given to Jesus" there? It is given to us.
Maybe you read your paraphrase translation again.
Jesus had said, "I am the way, the truth and the life".

I assumed you knew your Bible or at least the subject you are discussing.

For just as the Father has life in himself, thus he (God) has granted the Son to have life in himself, Jn 5:26.

This offers you a number of difficult dilemmas to work through.

F2F

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #222]

Yes his sacrifice opened the narrow gate to all--Few enter, Few obey. God sent( gave) his son for us-John 3:16-17

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #222]

Yes his sacrifice opened the narrow gate to all--Few enter, Few obey. God sent( gave) his son for us-John 3:16-17

Yes, they are called the saints in Rev 14:12.

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #220]

Him who is true, and in his( who is true)------ son--2 beings, 1 is God 1 is the son.

No, my question was who has the "eternal life" in 1 John 5:11?
Hard to answer?

1Jn 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

If you believe that Jesus already possessed life within himself, that he had a divine, eternal nature then how could that life be something that was given to Him? You can’t be given something you already inherently have. If Christ always possessed life in himself, then it couldn’t have been granted to him.

To maintain this belief, you would almost have to align with the Jehovah's Witnesses’ view: that Jesus existed in some pre-human form, such as an angel or some immortal being, before being given life in himself. But this contradicts Trinitarian doctrine, which teaches that Jesus was eternally equal with God and always had this divine life.

So, your statement seems to undermine the Trinity itself since if life was given to Christ, he couldn’t have always had it, nor could he have been equal with the Father from eternity. The logic simply doesn’t hold unless you reinterpret or reject one of these positions.

Would you like to know how trinitarian theologians have handled this issue?

What a misinterpretation?
Does the text mentioned the word "given to Jesus" there? It is given to us.
Maybe you read your paraphrase translation again.
Jesus had said, "I am the way, the truth and the life".

I assumed you knew your Bible or at least the subject you are discussing.

For just as the Father has life in himself, thus he (God) has granted the Son to have life in himself, Jn 5:26.

This offers you a number of difficult dilemmas to work through.

F2F

We are discussing about 1 John 5:11, I colored blue above. Do the text says "eternal life for us" or for Jesus?
So, who has that life in 1 John 5:11?