If there was life elsewhere...

[SaulToPaul]

Then the Sovereignty of Jehovah should not be an issue... But it is.

If life existed elsewhere, then Jehovah would have no point to prove. His sovereignty would already have been vindicated, and there would be no need to keep up with allowing suffering to continue. He could simply destroy the rebels, and move on.

Adam and Eve and Satan all rebelled at the same time. He could have simply destroyed them and started fresh, but it's not like there was only those 3 involved. There were hundreds of millions of angels paying attention to how Jehovah handled this situation. If Jehovah would have destroyed Satan, Adam and Eve, then no point would have been proven. Jehovah would have just been a tyrant. Instead, he allowed all to partake in this scenario that has been underway for over 6,000 years. He has given us every opportunity to rule ourselves to show that we can not rule ourselves. Have we done a good job? He has allowed Satan chance after chance to attempt to do what only Jehovah can do, which is, create peace and serenity. Paradise. Has he been able to?

Do you know that Satan won the first round? When Jehovah allowed Satan to live, Satan and his demons (simply bad angels) had fun, instead of doing what Jehovah allowed Satan to do (create peace). The world was so bad in round one, that Jehovah had to flood the world to remove the wicked. And unfortunately, Satan had to be given another chance. This time though, he and his demons were confined to heaven, able to travel only in spirit form. No more physical form. No more mating with human women.

So, in round two (the current round), Satan still has dominion over the world, but there are clearly defined rules. Jehovah has known that Satan is going to fail. There are so many prophecies about it. But that has not stopped Satan from trying. Nor mankind.

After it's all said and done, after the resurrection, when Satan is destroyed, and all of the wicked are once again destroyed, once and for all, then the earth will be returned to it's paradise state, as was originally intended. At that point, if an angel were to stand up and do what Satan did, or an human were to stand up and do what Adam and Eve did, saying "I or we think we can do Jehovah's job better than Him", then Jehovah would have no cause to let the new rebels live. The point has been proven. All of intelligent creation will be able to stand up in union, and say with a loud voice "NO YOU CAN'T!", and peace and security can reign for eternity. History will have been written. He gave us and Satan ample opportunity to create peace. He and we have failed.

When you start to look at things like this, everything starts to make sense. It's logical.

All life has free will. Only humans and angels truly understand what that means. There is no such thing as "it was God's will". The only "will" he has, is that all come to repentance and come back to him as willing slaves. But, that is still the problem. No one wants to give up their life to do Jehovah's will.

Give it up. You are fighting a losing battle. Here is something very important: Everyone who dies before the resurrection will be given a second chance at the resurrection. But those who do not make the correct choice and die at Armageddon, they die for eternity. That time will probably happen very shortly. Fortunately for you, you won't go to Hell, because it doesn't exist. Romans 6:23 "the wages of sin is death", not "the wages of sin is Hell". When you die, you. Are. Dead. Period. No soul. You ARE the soul, as referred to in the Bible. One other scripture to prove that you don't go to Hell; Jeremiah 7:31 "They have built the high places of To'pheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hin'nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart." These are Jehovah's words.

These are things that the Word says. If you want to know a lot more logical reasoning, I would love to teach you what is known to Jehovah's Witnesses as "The Truth".

God is love. He is only allowing things to happen because he has to. If he intervenes, then the point won't be proven. Come to him while you can. There are almost 9 million of us, and we are most definitely not a cult, lol. Type "define: cult" into Google. We worship Jehovah, not a man, and we are not sinister. We are true Christians. Do you know what the word Christian means? "Christ-like". If you claim Christianity, then you are REQUIRED to walk as that one did. To the very best of your ability.

I hope to hear from you. I can answer your questions, and if I can't, I can get the answer. The Holy Spirit is amazing.

Best regards,

-Paul

[tam]

Though I find it strange that you (or anyone who believes in God and in Christ) could think what Jesus used to quote from as inferior. If the Bible was good enough for Jesus why is not good enough for us?

Inferior to Christ? Of course it is! Doesn't mean it does not have its uses; but it is certainly not superior or even equal to Christ. Do you truly think the Bible is superior to Christ, the Living Word of God?

Jesus quoted the Bible often and never said he was greater than it.

Are you serious?

I don't even know what to say to that... wait:

"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life."

I'm surprised you don't know what to say, is the voice silent today? Perhaps the voice is tired or busy today?

Well, as you can see I only drew a blank for a moment (having been taken aback). Have you never been struck momentarily speechless from what someone else has said? Because of shock, surprise, etc?

Because we get eternal life from Jesus...so that is your reasoning that the Bible is inferior to you.

Inferior to Christ.

And it is Christ who compared searching the scriptures with coming to Him. Searching the scriptures did not grant people life, nor did it even draw them to Him. He gives people life; His Father draws people to Him. (No one comes to me unless the Father draws them.)

However, you reference a scripture that says the scriptures point to Jesus while on the other side of your mouth you stick your nose up at that very same book, as kind of double-speech.

I don't think my mouth and nose are quite that talented.

That being said, I did not stick my nose up at the bible. You asked is something was greater than the bible (for relaying truth or communicating from God)... I said Christ.

But even if I did stick my nose up at the Bible, you hold it in high regard, so showing you what is written in IT should have meaning to you, should it not? You need (or want) to see something, right? (I am not judging your or deriding you in that; just stating a fact.)

"This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to HIM."

Yes, that is correct and what did he say? ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every utterance coming forth through God's mouth.’� (Matthew 4:4)

What gives you the right to stick your nose up at anything that comes from God's mouth? Including the Bible.

See above.

Is the voice telling you to reject the Bible?

No.

I know of a woman the same thing happened to her. He told her the exact opposite of what she heard from God. Are you sure you wish to reject any utterance from God's mouth?

I'm sorry, this is a confusing statement. What same thing? He, who, told her the exact opposite that she heard from God. Did she also hear from God?




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

One person might read one thing but draw a different conclusion from me. Yet we can both point to the same source and everyone can see it.

True.

Sounds an awful lot like walking by sight though... when we are supposed to be walking by faith. And faith is based upon the thing HEARD.

Your play on words is very cunning. Let me reply with something equally cunning and cheeky.
There are many recordings of the Bible, you can listen to them, problem solved.

I'd like to point out here you are again quoting not from a voice but from the Bible. The book you claim to be inferior. Did you know Satan misuses the Bible to his advantage too? (Matthew 4:5,6)

It was not meant to be cunning or cheeky; you are imposing something upon me that is not there. It was simply true. It was what the Spirit reminded me of.

Heard... as Abraham heard. Abraham heard and obeyed. As Noah heard (and obeyed). Faith and works. Christ said His sheep would listen to His voice. I believe Him.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2timothy316]

Is the voice telling you to reject the Bible?

No.

Ah, so when you reject a scripture posted by another that is of your own accord?

[2timothy316]

One person might read one thing but draw a different conclusion from me. Yet we can both point to the same source and everyone can see it.

True.

Sounds an awful lot like walking by sight though... when we are supposed to be walking by faith. And faith is based upon the thing HEARD.

Your play on words is very cunning. Let me reply with something equally cunning and cheeky.
There are many recordings of the Bible, you can listen to them, problem solved.

I'd like to point out here you are again quoting not from a voice but from the Bible. The book you claim to be inferior. Did you know Satan misuses the Bible to his advantage too? (Matthew 4:5,6)

It was not meant to be cunning or cheeky; you are imposing something upon me that is not there. It was simply true. It was what the Spirit reminded me of.

Heard... as Abraham heard. Abraham heard and obeyed. As Noah heard (and obeyed). Faith and works. Christ said His sheep would listen to His voice. I believe Him.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Heard with the ear but one can't listen by what they read with their eyes, right? Did you know that listen can be applied what one reads? There is hearing and listening. One can hear and not listen, did you know that? "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand." Matthew 13:13. The same goes for what we read. We can read but not understand. Listening means to understand. That means it is possible to understand what we are seeing and not just what we hear. So the 'Spirit' doesn't seem to be leading you in the right direction.

[tam]

Is the voice telling you to reject the Bible?

No.

Ah, so when you reject a scripture posted by another that is of your own accord?

Is "the bible" and "a scripture" synonymous?



If I were to reject a verse from the bible it would be because it contradicts Christ. I cannot recall that happening, mind you ... it would more be the interpretation (or translation) that I would reject... because He has shown me what it means and/or because it contradicts Him (and love). Holding all things up against the Light (Christ).

Sometimes I just do not know; and so leave it for such a time as my Lord explains it.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

One person might read one thing but draw a different conclusion from me. Yet we can both point to the same source and everyone can see it.

True.

Sounds an awful lot like walking by sight though... when we are supposed to be walking by faith. And faith is based upon the thing HEARD.

Your play on words is very cunning. Let me reply with something equally cunning and cheeky.
There are many recordings of the Bible, you can listen to them, problem solved.

I'd like to point out here you are again quoting not from a voice but from the Bible. The book you claim to be inferior. Did you know Satan misuses the Bible to his advantage too? (Matthew 4:5,6)

It was not meant to be cunning or cheeky; you are imposing something upon me that is not there. It was simply true. It was what the Spirit reminded me of.

Heard... as Abraham heard. Abraham heard and obeyed. As Noah heard (and obeyed). Faith and works. Christ said His sheep would listen to His voice. I believe Him.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Heard with the ear but one can't listen by what they read with their eyes, right?

Not literally, no. Our eyes can also lie to us. We can see what we want to see. We can see what we have been taught (or indoctrinated) to see. I do not think you will disagree.

How often have you heard someone say something like, "I have read that a million times and I never SAW that verse?"

Did you know that listen can be applied what one reads?

Listen as in obey, yes.

One can even listen if one asks Christ to read to them what is written, and He does so. Then one is listening to His voice, and allowing Him to read to you, even as you read along. He read his prayer to the Father to me once, in His voice, as I read along. I heard (understood and saw) things I had never understood before listening to His words in His voice. I heard His great love in His voice. That is not an experience that leaves you. That is not a love that you forget.

There is hearing and listening. One can hear and not listen, did you know that?

Of course, but please note that this is the reason I put emphasis on the words listen to 'His voice'.

The emphasis was on WHAT we listen TO. (regardless of how you define the word, listen or the word, hear)


Hear His voice; listen to His voice.

And we have been given examples in what is written of Him speaking (literally), after his death and resurrection and ascension, and of people hearing and listening to His voice.

"Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand." Matthew 13:13. The same goes for what we read. We can read but not understand.

Yes, of course.

Listening means to understand. That means it is possible to understand what we are seeing and not just what we hear. So the 'Spirit' doesn't seem to be leading you in the right direction.

[/quote]

Hearing can mean to literally hear... and hearing can mean to understand.

Listening to can mean to hear... and listening to can mean to obey.


But again, I placed emphasis upon hearing and listening to 'His voice'.

And yes of course it is possible to understand something that we see... where did I state that it was not possible to understand something we see?



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Sorry, I missed this one.

What is your touchstone? What do you hold what you hear up to in order to see if it pure. What should the man that smokes weed hold what he hears up to in order to see if it is pure?

We must hold everything up to the Light. Christ is the Light. Christ is the Truth.

And when they do and that 'voice' comes back, according to some, to attack other out the love for God, then what?

Then you can know that this one is not hearing Christ (or at the least, this one has misunderstood what they heard). You can know this by holding up their words to the Light (Christ).

Who did Christ attack?

Who did He tell us to attack?

Did He not teach the opposite? State that we are to turn the other cheek? Did He not rebuke Peter when Peter attacked the servant of those coming to arrest Him (Christ)?

Where did Christ EVER teach (by His words or by His deeds) that we are to attack others? It goes against everything that He taught.

(I am assuming that by attack you are referring to an assault... and not just disagreement or speaking truth. Even though some people take disagreement or truth as an attack upon them.)

And please, tell me, where is the love in attacking someone?

'The Light' according to whom? Some say they have the light and you don't. How do you prove you're right and they are wrong? Some say that Jesus tells them that there are people burning in Hell some say there are not, which one is truth and how can it be proven?

The Light... according to Christ. He is the Light. He is the Truth.

So it is not a matter of 'having the light', but rather of listening to Him, knowing Him.

I gave an example of holding something up against the Light (against Christ) above.

As stated earlier, we are told to test the inspired expression. So I would test that against Christ (ask Him), against love (which God IS and which the law IS), and against what is written (beginning with what Christ said and did, since He is the Truth).

Where is the Law of love found? The law of love according the voices that talk to you or the ones that talk to man that smokes weed?

Why are you inserting 'voices' (plural) when I have spoken of one voice? Christ's voice?

Do you not know that love is the law?

When asked about the greatest commandments, what did Christ say?

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’"

He then said:

"All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.�


Love does not steal. Love does not covet. Love does not murder. Mercy and forgiveness come from love. And there is no law against love. (Galatians 5:22, 23) If there is no law against love, then would not love be THE law?


Christ taught us to do even more than those two commandments... He taught us to love even our enemies. He then gave one more command to His apostles (which means it also applies to all who would follow Him): to love one another as He has loved us.


And what about God? God is love, yes? If God is love, then would it not follow that the law that comes from Him would be love?

The vagueness of your answers is not moving the conversation anywhere. I'm struggling to find answers in your posts at all.

Then let us simplify matters, shall we?

Is it better to receive information straight from the source? Firsthand? Or is it better to receive information second-hand?



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[brianbbs67]

I did not say everyone who claims to talk to God, does.

So how do I know that you speak to God?

You speak to God, also, everytime you pray. You would not know if He had said a word to me, nor I you. I just am saying, don't toss such a claim out as the Lord says he reveals Himself in different ways to different people

You asked what would be better. Seemed simple to me. I wouldn't discount anyone immediately that said God spoke to them.

So the man that smokes weed and people of ISIS are both hearing God? Everything seems simple to them as well. Is how simple it seems the test on what is right and what is wrong?

I don't know about a weed smoker, but judging by the actions of ISIS, they are not hearing Him.

It could happen. Their acts and message should show the truth pretty quickly.

Acts and message compared to what will show the truth? What tells between a good act and a bad one? How can we know a good message from a bad one? The weed smoker is hearing your message and saying it is bad. How do you prove he is or is not listening to God?

For example, if one is doing terrible things against the people by moral and biblical standards (murder, rape, lies, etc). I would say non inspired.

The pothead doesn't concern me. I don't really have a message, other than God is real and works in His own way. Everyone has an opinion. I would not need to prove anything. i would just let him be.

Which compels me to repeat, don't discount immediately anyones claims regarding the Almighty(unless clearly against scripture), just because you don't believe it could happen.

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 35 by Claire Evans]

"No, Satan is a powerful being in his own right. God is not omnipotent. God knows Satan cannot repent because it is impossible. Satan is the source of all evil. "

Nowhere does the Bible say that 'satan is a powerful being'.

Really? Then what was the victory of Christ by rising from the dead and defeating Satan sin?

If Satan was not so powerful, then why is Satan dominating the earth?

Nowhere does it say that 'God is not omnipotent' - did you actually mean to say that?
Nowhere are we told that satan is the source of all evil.

Satan did not exist before man's creation. It came into existence after man chose to contradict God's laws. Satan as an entity does not exist but the evils and falsities done by man are called satans and devils.

Forget about what the Bible says; what do you know about God?

How can God be victorious over Satan, if Satan has no power at all? To be victorious over someone, they need to have power which they need to overcome.

Who is the source of evil then if it is not the devil? God? Then that makes Him a monster.

Jesus referred to Satan as the Father of Lies therefore Satan is an entity.

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 36 by Monta]

I agree with all, except the last sentence. All writing/ scripture concerning the High Adversary says he was of the heavenly host. Which was established before us.

If you could offer some of that scripture that would be help.

In light of this discussion, is it satan to be blamed for thousands of children dying in Yemen at the moment? Also, is satan telling our leaders to continue their support of countries which are responsible for distruction of Yemen, one of poorest countries in the world.

Hope you don't mind me chipping in here but, yes, Satan does tell our leaders what to do. They are Satan worshipers who are leading the way for the Anti-Christ.